FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

[henrys hand]

Originally Posted by pes4lyfe

I will try but often I struggle on pro so I cant see it being fun unless I reduce some cpu sliders to make it easier for me.

I know that legendary is very difficult, especially when playing against good teams, but I like the challenge and thrill. In pro level I don't get that thrill-feeling.

Regarding sliders, I have put them the same for me and CPU:

Acceleration on 70, top-speed on 30.
Passpeed on 70.
Shooting-power on 51.
Defensive line on 70.
Making runs on 70.
Shot/Pass error on 60.

The rest I let on 50 I guess, have to check it again.

Playing on slow gamespeed by the way and everything on manual.

The important thing is to use the right formation for the right opponent, and especially to set the offside-trap on in the tactics-menu. Unfortunately the team would still not always play the offside-trap, but it's better than nothing.

Oh, and you have to use a camera-setting that allows for a good view of the pitch so that you can see how your team members move about and get into position.

It's difficult, but the challenge and sometimes frustration forced me to improve my game-skill and to simply play better and more wise. I still lose often, but I get better and can see the silver lining.

[andybls]

So what camera view do u use and do u adjust the angle and height ??

[pes4lyfe]

maybe ill try world class surely thats also got good cpu compared to pro but not as hard as leg?

[Rob92]

Just played two games on Legendary and won 3-0 and 4-0, with the CPU hardly threatening my goal using Placebo's sliders + manual.

The 4-0 was with Coventry against Birmingham too, I think the slider settings may be making the game too easy? It's very easy to create space for a shot and the shot power means they fly into the corners spectacularly a bit too often.
Managed to score a goal similar to my Rooney one in the video thread with both Edin Dzeko and Clive Platt... Kind of takes the shine off when it's that common (and with a 61 rated Coventry striker).

And why is the normal pass button so inaccurate and inconsistent yet using the through ball button I hardly misplace a pass? Also the chipped through balls are pretty useless, hardly touching the button sends it flying about 30 yards.

Slowly beginning to see the classic FIFA repetitiveness kick in.

[pes4lyfe]

Originally Posted by Rob92

Just played two games on Legendary and won 3-0 and 4-0, with the CPU hardly threatening my goal using Placebo's sliders + manual.

The 4-0 was with Coventry against Birmingham too, I think the slider settings may be making the game too easy? It's very easy to create space for a shot and the shot power means they fly into the corners spectacularly a bit too often.
Managed to score a goal similar to my Rooney one in the video thread with both Edin Dzeko and Clive Platt... Kind of takes the shine off when it's that common (and with a 61 rated Coventry striker).

And why is the normal pass button so inaccurate and inconsistent yet using the through ball button I hardly misplace a pass? Also the chipped through balls are pretty useless, hardly touching the button sends it flying about 30 yards.

Slowly beginning to see the classic FIFA repetitiveness kick in.

I decided its best to put normal pass on assistes as for some reason on even semi it seems to often be misplaced or over/underhit etc...

Well I still keep it on semi but i think its annoying.

[henrys hand]

Originally Posted by andybls

So what camera view do u use and do u adjust the angle and height ??

I use Tele with Zoom on 0 and Height on middle.

[pes4lyfe]

what game looks more like a real footy game to watch fifa12 or pes2012?

[Flaw3d Genius]

Originally Posted by pes4lyfe

what game looks more like a real footy game to watch fifa12 or pes2012?

Fifa, as soon as you see the animations of PES it looks nothing like real football. PES plays out a bit more like real football though although the goals are still a bit OTT but thats why we love PES right?

[pes4lyfe]

Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius

Fifa, as soon as you see the animations of PES it looks nothing like real football. PES plays out a bit more like real football though although the goals are still a bit OTT but thats why we love PES right?

Apart from the animations when I look at the movements, formations and runs and long passes etc when watchign a game of pes it looks more like real life.

When I watch fifa the animations and player models make it ''look'' more real life.

To a non footy fan FIFA looks like footy on tv realistic.

To a footy fan PEs looks like a game of real footy on tv but the animations make it void.

[henrys hand]

Originally Posted by pes4lyfe

what game looks more like a real footy game to watch fifa12 or pes2012?

Fifa 12 handsdown, and not only visually or regarding animations but also regarding gameplay once the sliders are set well enough.

What I prefer in PES 2012 is the teammember-AI, they can move a bit more intelligent and varied than in Fifa 12, but except for that and for that less skating of the players on the pitch, I prefer everything else in Fifa 12 and that's a lot.

I think Fifa 12 is more of a simulation of the real sport than PES 2012, but there is still quite a lot of room for improvement.

Until today I thought there was no scripting going on in Fifa 12, but a few things happened in a single match on legendary difficulty that forced me to rethink:

1. The ball was loose and I was a bit quicker to get to it than the opponent, I pushed the ball in the opposite direction of the nearing opponent, and I was through, so it was physically impossible for the opponent to get the ball, but he put out his foot, hit empty space and the ball hit a magic invisible wall and reflected from it. I watched it over with slomo-replay-camera and the foot of the opponent didn't reach the ball at all, but even if, the ball would have to go into a whole other direction. The ball reflected from an invisible wall!

2. I hit a long ball into the way of my leftfield player and he actually outrun the defender and got to the longball, I was through and went straight for the goalline, turned right and had a lot of space for a nice pass back into the center where one of my team was free, he got the ball, but the damn cursor didn't go on him. I cursed in all languages I knew and tried to get the cursor on him to no avail until he was easily dispossessed, throwing away a 100%-goal-opportunity.

3. I was fouled rather brutally, but the referee saw no foul play. Ok, this happens in real life, too, but then it happened a second time in the same match and the replay-camera showed clearly a foul play but not according to the referee.

I don't know, maybe these are just some bugs, but if not, it may be an instrument of the game to script things, ie. to prevent goals.

Ironically in that match I made my most awesome goal, using manual shooting to make a shot I never could do with semi shooting before, it was truly one to remember in the gallery.

[CalcioCalabrese]

They aren't bugs in my opinion. I remember playing FIFA world cup last year and trying to qualify out of a group but getting screwed in the last few games where you'd win the ball and give away a free kick, but you get kicked off the park and not one free kick your way lol.

[Ronaldinho_23]

is this real?

Producer David Rutter has stated that FIFA 13 will contain more new features than FIFA 12. He was quoted as saying "We've got so much stuff we still want to do. EA Sports Football Club this year is brilliant, but there's even stuff we wanted to do this year that we didn't get to, When people get to see that in the next few years, they're
going to be totally blown away." [1]

Playstation Move Support [2]
Improved Player Graphics
Close to Real-Life Presentation
Improved Player Faces
Motion Caption
300 Clubs Face Capture
(New ​Teams Comfirmed For Face Capture)
Manchester United
Liverpool
'Napoli'
FC Barcelona (Updated)
Manchester City (Updated)
Real Madrid (Updated)
Fulham
Tottenham....

[CalcioCalabrese]

Most of it sounds like it's improving the visual aspect, which in my opinion is already good enough. No mention of tweaking the player movement to make the gameplay "feel" more realistic?! That's what I want to hear.

[Flaw3d Genius]

Originally Posted by Ronaldinho_23

is this real?

It's from 2011 September

http://news.softpedia.com/news/FIFA-...s-224809.shtml

And someone has added the rest of the stuff. You get it from Wiki?

[romagnoli]

Originally Posted by CalcioCalabrese

Most of it sounds like it's improving the visual aspect, which in my opinion is already good enough. No mention of tweaking the player movement to make the gameplay "feel" more realistic?! That's what I want to hear.

Well there's no way they're going to talk about gameplay so soon, whether the news is from September 2011 or March 2012. Both sides, but particularly EA, will want to keep their cards close to their chest until it becomes very hard for the other side to react in time. Talking about aesthetics is comparatively safe.

[pes4lyfe]

on a side note why is tiger wooods 2013 out like next week?

should i also buy my xmas tree?

[ccshopland]

Originally Posted by CalcioCalabrese

Most of it sounds like it's improving the visual aspect, which in my opinion is already good enough. No mention of tweaking the player movement to make the gameplay "feel" more realistic?! That's what I want to hear.

Exactly Calcio; for all we criticise PES it will be interesting to see this year if FIFA has shot its bolt in terms of the gameplay. Another year of stagnant/clueless AI could start to see a tipping point towards PES....but if only they can just get it right for once!

For me, the scripting this year in both games is just through the roof, and this can only be designed to hide the flaws of certain aspects of the game or (in FIFA's case) to create excitement from an otherwise dull product.

The scripting must be stopped and replaced by an intelligent game management system. In PES the CPU just can't wait to give the ball away which adds even more to this arcade counter attack experience, whilst in FIFA, 'the possession game' is just mere illusory coding to show that 'look the CPU holds onto the ball a bit longer' without any real purpose. The defensive AI in FIFA is seriously, seriously bad, which totally negates any good of the attacking side.

How have we even gotten to this stage where in 2012, both titles are so fundamentally flawed if played for any length of time? I'm not talking about hardness or easiness here! In both titles I now know what to do to win games - but this has never been my quest....I didn't have to MAKE the CPU play like a football team in PES 5/6, they just did it, so why so many years on does the user have to manufacture a game through settings/mods/styles of play to get the best out of a game that solely looks to glitch cheat you?

I felt that in PES' case we were moving a step closer to simulation in 2011, players felt heavier (although granted some were way too heavy on the turn), but things like acceleration and speed were noticeable, as well as individuality being more pronounced. The tempo of the game was better and the CPU played a nice passing game on times, although possession stats were sometimes outrageously high for the user and through balls slightly too easy. But nevertheless this could have been worked on.

PES 2012, in hindsight, is pretty much arcade stuff. FIFA on the other hand, is just too dull and doesn't capture anything from game tempo/soul to the way teams press/defend in unit; thus you have a quite stagnant and staccato experience of just moving from grid to grid without any 'on the cuff' creativity, that real life defensive positioning and pressure and errors cause.

[Placebo]

Originally Posted by pes4lyfe

on a side note why is tiger wooods 2013 out like next week?

Tiger Woods is the least successful of EA's annual sports franchises so they moved it away from the Autumn for less competition, think they did this two versions ago? Certainly last year's was around the same date.

[nerf]

Originally Posted by henrys hand

I don't know, maybe these are just some bugs, but if not, it may be an instrument of the game to script things, ie. to prevent goals.

The first two are clearly bugs. Just dodgy collision detection and inconsistent player-selection problems; the latter happens all over the place. They don't deliberately choose to glitch at an opportune time. Nobody writes games that way. It's such an illogical notion.

Whether there is any variable bias written into the officials I don't know, that could also just be imprecise collision detection, but it's harder to say for sure. It's certainly easy to be paranoid about it... but that's also the case in real football.

[romagnoli]

Originally Posted by ccshopland

Exactly Calcio; for all we criticise PES it will be interesting to see this year if FIFA has shot its bolt in terms of the gameplay. Another year of stagnant/clueless AI could start to see a tipping point towards PES....but if only they can just get it right for once!

It's as if I hadn't even made that post...

For me, the scripting this year in both games is just through the roof, and this can only be designed to hide the flaws of certain aspects of the game or (in FIFA's case) to create excitement from an otherwise dull product.

Whatever you are describing is not scripting. It is not the game deciding your actions should succeed or fail in order to create a particular end result.

I really do think there should be a ban on the word scripting on Evo Web because people use it willy nilly, and seldom when correct. The list henrys hand gave did not contain a single scripting incident, for example. The first two are bugs, issues that EA need to work on but have greatly improved over the past few years. The third is refereeing decisions, which are very hard to code to work perfectly, and are typically only watched over and over again when they go against you, not for you. I know I've committed a lot of fouls recently that haven't been given.

[ccshopland]

Originally Posted by romagnoli

It's as if I hadn't even made that post...


Whatever you are describing is not scripting. It is not the game deciding your actions should succeed or fail in order to create a particular end result.

I really do think there should be a ban on the word scripting on Evo Web because people use it willy nilly, and seldom when correct. The list henrys hand gave did not contain a single scripting incident, for example. The first two are bugs, issues that EA need to work on but have greatly improved over the past few years. The third is refereeing decisions, which are very hard to code to work perfectly, and are typically only watched over and over again when they go against you, not for you. I know I've committed a lot of fouls recently that haven't been given.

Err....no lol.

Fifa is scripted beyond belief. You play enough Career Mode and you'll see it shining through. Of course it is the game deciding what it wants, there's pages and pages and pages of this argument on the FIFA official forum which highlights this....what, they're all wrong?!?

Just some things to notice -

45/90 minute goals (yeah, coincidence, every other game...)
CPU moving your defenders
Carlisle playing like Milan
Stat boosts everywhere for the CPU
Your own team mates acting dumber and dumber, moving away from the ball carrier (FIFA 12 has the worst defensive AI on record)
Team mates suddenly mis-placing easy five yard passes
'Events' occurring like the 'engineered corner', to which they then score a scripted header

It goes on and on dude, and both games are guilty of this in some way.

A week ago I played one of these such games using Placebo's manual settings, battered Man City, truly. Their keeper Hart, was performing miracles left right and centre, combined with me hitting the post three times! (yes, this 'bug' lol)

Then with virtually the last kick of the game they hit a long ball from nowhere, my defender Agger starts playing some kind of weird offside, before playing Tevez back onside, then with the ball travelling safely to the keeper, the referee pulls my CPU controlled defender up for an inside the box infringement....errr, penalty to Man City in the.....yes, 90th minute.

LOL, you couldn't make this shit up honestly!

I'd much prefer the game to say before I played it, in big red Arial font over the top of the slick presentation screen, 'EA WILL FK YOU OVER THIS GAME', I'd shake them by the hand for the fore-warning!

This isn't me on a rant...this is me playing in depth, both games, since release, and exploring almost every avenue there is to explore, from difficulty levels, to sliders etc etc.

The only shining light PES has in reality is the variation of gameplay, instead of the CPU glitching you one on one constantly ala FIFA.

So no....the word scripting shouldn't be banned, in fact it should be said more! SCRIPTING, SCRIPTING, SCRIPTING.....there I said it...again.

[romagnoli]

Not a single one of those examples (a) happens like you see it, or (b) is the result of scripting. This is why the word should be banned. People just stop at 'scripting', rather than thinking about it and working out what is ACTUALLY happening.

[ccshopland]

Originally Posted by romagnoli

Not a single one of those examples (a) happens like you see it, or (b) is the result of scripting. This is why the word should be banned. People just stop at 'scripting', rather than thinking about it and working out what is ACTUALLY happening.

What is 'ACTUALLY' happening? - the CPU 'ISN'T' manipulating my defensive line, goals 'AREN'T' being scored in the 45th/90th minutes as a purely obvious scripting device, CPU players who are slow (stats) are 'NOT' getting reflex and speed burst advantages.....

You're right....I've dreamt all this....

My bad!

[romagnoli]

That's right. You're halfway there. Now you've (albeit sarcastically) realised these things aren't happening as a result of scripting, you just need to devote some time to working out what these phenomena are actually caused by. Then you'll be able to help us and EA make changes to address these flaws.

[ccshopland]

Originally Posted by romagnoli

That's right. You're halfway there. Now you've (albeit sarcastically) realised these things aren't happening as a result of scripting, you just need to devote some time to working out what these phenomena are actually caused by. Then you'll be able to help us and EA make changes to address these flaws.

Thank you Rom for making me see the light....

(aside - now where's my FIFA disc and saved Career Mode where I'm top on Legendary, but alas get no satisfaction out of it.....)

EA SPORTS...It's in the game! Rarrr!

[Placebo]

Originally Posted by ccshopland

there's pages and pages and pages of this argument on the FIFA official forum which highlights this....what, they're all wrong?!?

That's the point where nobody need bother reading further, 99% of the posters on the official forum are morons.

[Placebo]

The reason more goals seem to be scored in the 45th/90th minutes is because those minutes tend to actually be about 5 minutes long, I score/concede as many in the 88th as I do in the 93rd...

[ccshopland]

Originally Posted by Placebo

That's the point where nobody need bother reading further, 99% of the posters on the official forum are morons.

Yep, ALL morons that complain about similar things - strange that!

Couple of guys have utterly owned the FIFA 'Mods' though with some terrific argument re the game coding and scripting/momentum issues.

Honestly, the EA boys can swear a teapot is a submarine.

[Rob92]

I think scripting is just a myth and always has been throughout the PS2 PES years and the recent PES/FIFA versions.

People will happily wax lyrical about scripting when things aren't going their way, but plenty of times in both PES and FIFA I've scored last minute minute winners in important games, had slow defenders catch up to faster opponents, had lucky bounces/deflections/own goals etc.

Pretty much everything we complain about being "scripting" actually works both ways, but when it favours us, we don't even think about it.

When you're playing against a form of AI, it will make odd decisions, have quicker reactions, probably more precision etc. so it may seem superhuman at times, that doesn't mean it's scripting the game in it's favour
At others it seems incredibly dumb when it doesn't make an obvious choice or tactical decision that a human would make.

[ccshopland]

Originally Posted by Rob92

I think scripting is just a myth and always has been throughout the PS2 PES years and the recent PES/FIFA versions.

People will happily wax lyrical about scripting when things aren't going their way, but plenty of times in both PES and FIFA I've scored last minute minute winners in important games, had slow defenders catch up to faster opponents, had lucky bounces/deflections/own goals etc.

Pretty much everything we complain about being "scripting" actually works both ways, but when it favours us, we don't even think about it.

When you're playing against a form of AI, it will make odd decisions, have quicker reactions, probably more precision etc. so it may seem superhuman at times, that doesn't mean it's scripting the game in it's favour
At others it seems incredibly dumb when it doesn't make an obvious choice or tactical decision that a human would make.

But this is the point.....this proves that scripting exists, that's not what the hardcore are arguing against that it's for OR against you, just the fact that it's there, in some format!

I don't want to be part of a movie in which my inputs on the controller are meaningless, I want to impinge on the game, both good and bad. I don't want the CPu moving my CB to create a goal for the CPU no more than I want to see the CPU defence open up on the 90th minute to let me in.

THIS IS WHAT YOU GUYS ARE MISSING THE POINT WITH....

I have already said that I'm top of my CM, full manual on my PS3. Do I get satisfaction out of FIFA though; no I don't? The frequency of 45/90 minute goals is just silly. This cannot be coincidence. It's a direct consequence of CPU programming interference, from engineering a ball break here, a player losing position there, all this to engineer a game with thrills and spills to keep the gamer happy that there's goals and shit going on...

It's not an issue of there being scripts going against me, rather an issue of there now being an almost stupidly huge amount of scripts which has me almost thinking 'what is even the fkin point' of me pressing buttons and trying to influence a computer game through old school means ala PES5. This year's titles we are just passengers drifting through a ML or CM whereby the CPU is doing the vast majority of work behind the scenes, whilst we just provide the vehicle for hitting the 'next' button on our pads.