FIFA 09 PS3/360 Discussion Thread

[AsterNzeyii]

You're so damn right Placebo.

[lons_pl]

Fast speed + auto passing = PES mode.
Normal/Slow speed + all manual controls = Football mode.

;)

Sorry but I think that you like very,very slow game,where everything you can see.Fifa 08 was to slow and you have to know that was very,very borring.Game have to be more dinamic,faster like Pes 6.

[cb7]

More videos please :D

[evacuate]

You can clearly see how shit the own team AI still is. I moan about this all the time sorry but it ruins single player for me. Look when C.Ronaldo is going through and watch how the midfielder that is not player controlled is just running at Ronaldos side and doesn't do shit. Guess I'll only play BAP again...

[stahre]

Totally agree that Fifa plays way better with everything on manual and it will be great this year online when you actually can choose to play against other manual players. The thing is I mostly play offline in the career mode and I want the computer to play more like "manual settings" as well.

[sweetkilla]

the fact we can now play manual only players means I will use it from day one as I can now play people who will be error prone in situations where I also screwed up :) can't wait!

[BobbyBox]

All I wanted mainly was the reaction times to be improved and the same speed as '08 - It looks like it has been, so I am a happy bunny :DD

But all the videos etc aren't blowing me away.

But I think all the little things they have done will be great for the game.

[cb7]

It´s really hard to make correct judgements of the videos when both players SUCK. I have yet to see a video with someone playing without running straight foward and passing randomly.

[pepper63]

Please i hope you can elbow and two footed tackle..

[Placebo]

Next video up on FSB :)

[danhammer]

pepper63 = ben thatcher

[gameklip]

I'm a bit surprised in that question and answer that Adam said the gameplay is basically the same as Euro. Obviously I haven't played it yet but from what I've seen and heard I feel like anyone that played a lot of Euro would feel the differences a lot more. Players being able to hold off defenders, improved shooting, improved goalkeepers etc (which he both says are improved) would seem to me to be big gameplay changes, no? I wish he were a bit more specific why Pro Evo fans still wouldn't like this version, what it is about the game, ie players still aren't individual enough? As a former huge PES fan I'm interested to know what is holding the others back?

On another note one thing i think I've noticed so far is that passes seem a bit too accurate, for example even on off balance/blind passes, anyone else notice this?

all i have to say is, check the Euro2008 compilation vid below it and compare. it's like night and day. TONNES of new animations. fluid as butter and the game looks like a lot more fun to play (responsiveness). i cannot wait.

that ronaldo free kick is simply stunning.

[cowden_harley]

that tackle for the free kick was immense. take that ronaldo!!!! Looked so amazing. Game looks so smooth.

[Placebo]

Sorry but I think that you like very,very slow game,where everything you can see.Fifa 08 was to slow and you have to know that was very,very borring.Game have to be more dinamic,faster like Pes 6.

I think what I like is a slow paced simulation of football, rather than a ping-pong, pinball machine arcade version of football like PES, that to me is boring. I have had plenty of fast, dynamic, end to end matches in Fifa08. I think perhaps some people are just too used to overly fast arcade games and can't adjust to a more simulated experience, that's ok, not everyone is the same :)

[BillyBoy]

Those HD videos look really good. The hype dropped slightly but is back up now!

[BillyBoy]

Next video up on FSB :)

I demand more Placebo! MOAR!!! :-pp

[Placebo]

Next one is uploading now.

[Terry_Butcher]

Placebo I argee that FIFA is going down a simulation route - unlike PES. Maybe for next FIFA there could be a Gemma Atkinson mode as part of Be A Pro - I think I'd enjoy both the slow and fast options with the lovely lass ;)

[BillyBoy]

Next one is uploading now.

Yay! :)

[hazza10]

can someone mirror those vids as i cannot watch them from fsb (maybe placebo) hhahaalol

[cb7]

You have download links below.

[hazza10]

are all those download links of the same video????

[stahre]

that tackle for the free kick was immense. take that ronaldo!!!! Looked so amazing. Game looks so smooth.

Yes, collisions and tackles looks beautiful but I'm a bit concerned he (Agger?) didn't get a red or at least a yellow... Don't want that be a standard play to stop an attack online :((

[cb7]

Yes , different mirrors.

[stilts1844]

all i have to say is, check the Euro2008 compilation vid below it and compare. it's like night and day. TONNES of new animations. fluid as butter and the game looks like a lot more fun to play (responsiveness). i cannot wait.

that ronaldo free kick is simply stunning.

Yea I know I've watched all of em and I agree, which is why it is perplexing that he can say that there really aren't any changes to gameplay, while almost simultaneously mentioning things that I would think are big changes. I've listened to him on the podcast before and seems like an intelligent guy, you would think he would be beyond fanboyism and would just want the best footie game? so I dunno, to each their own i suppose.

As for manual passing, do u feel that player attributes still come in to play at all or is it strictly the direction you press on the controller + power? One of the problems with fifa already is player att's not mattering as much as they should does this not take away from it even further? I've always used a mix of semi auto and auto and that has been good for me so far

[gameklip]

yeah cowden, i feell people are glossing over how much better than Euo2008 this looks.

the tackle was sick, and totally impossible to replicate in euro2008. ronaldo went flying. all it needs it ronaldo putting his hands in prayer while on his knees then slamming his hands on the floor in anger with tears in his eyes... like every saturday :D

[Coopz]

Yes, collisions and tackles looks beautiful but I'm a bit concerned he (Agger?) didn't get a red or at least a yellow... Don't want that be a standard play to stop an attack online :((

Exactly

So the refs still may be as shit as in Fifa 08 which aint good

[lons_pl]

I think what I like is a slow paced simulation of football, rather than a ping-pong, pinball machine arcade version of football like PES, that to me is boring. I have had plenty of fast, dynamic, end to end matches in Fifa08. I think perhaps some people are just too used to overly fast arcade games and can't adjust to a more simulated experience, that's ok, not everyone is the same :)

Sorry,but you and a lot of Fifa fans says that Pes is arcade game but it is not true.You have to know that arcade and dynamic are to differt things.Game have to be dynamic like Pes not arcade.If I say about Pes I mean Pes 5-6 not 2008.I played Pes 5 and 6 on my Pc and I remember that all my games online which I played 1600 times was excite.I have xbox 360 now and I played 100 matches online and it is enougt for me,you know why??because all games are the same.Game is not real life and If you want really simulation in game it will be very boring.Game have to have something,that you feel this you know??

[YoungGun_UK]

YES I HAVE PLAYED THE GAME TODAY AT I34!:DD

Yep folks today I played the game for the first time, I played the same build as Adam did and my opinion is pretty different to his. So without further to do let me get on with it :))

My first impression was wasnt that good as I started watching People play it and i didnt see much improvement and as Suff said and as I have seen from a lot of you it really is a totally different thing from watching and playing.

When i first got hold of the controller and the game started I felt the pace of the game to be perfect, they really have nailed it with the default speed IMO(Faster than 08/Slower than Euro). The second thing was the game felt VERY different to me compared to what i was watching before, The players and the ball have weight and when you recieve a pass or run with and try and turn etc this has IMO been improvement greatly. The other big improvement was the ball is ALOT more free, something which really stands out and makes the game feel less robotic and more like your watching a real match rather than the ball being glued to a players foot.

The Passing felt Improvement in certain situations but also felt like in some instances it had gone back, When you pass it can zip across the surface and you also "feel" it more when your player recieves it(adding to the weight). I was playing on "Semi" Passing and it didnt feel as accurate as 08 on "Semi", maybe this was just me as i have moved to Manual recently on 08(1 month) but there was a few situations where the pass went to the wrong player which can be very fustrating but this is something which wont be a problem for Manual players unless this means they have reduced the how free Semi and Manual are a tad bit.

The Shooting i feel was one of the big improvements for me, when you smack it it really is smacked IMO now, this is probably due to the weight being improved aswell, they have improved one on ones alot as it simply isnt as easy as it was before to just score but also it is now pretty much vital you shoot with "Finesse shot" when through on goal, Shooting as a whole is much harder even when there was a empty net you would need to steady yourself to tap it in otherwise there was a chance you would miss the target. I think i hit the post around 5 or 6 times when one on one which shows its become more difficult.

The Skill felt the same as 08 yet they have added more some new skill moves, it isnt as easy as Euro and pretty identical to 08 other than the new skill moves.

The Tackling has been improved massively from the games i played, You now in PES5 with "conservative tackle" you would need to poke at the right times now it feels like that which is good but "Slide tackling" stole the show on tacking as they are now just amazing (along with the collision system which it involves) they have them IMO spot on now. The collision system has already been hyped/praised so im not going to bother other than saying it really is that good.

The Ref can be slightly leniant or strict there didnt seem to be a consistent of one but there is no way you can hack someone down like 08 and not get a red.

The Goalkeepers IMO where along with Shooting and Tackling the biggest improvement, they were IMO perfectly balanced, they reacted properly to the situation, remember when Euro gameplay vids were coming out and Ronaldo had a shot from just outside the box and the Keeper caught it like it was a back pass? well from around 10 or 11 games I played that NEVER happenend and i wasnt pissed at the keeper once.

Overall FIFA 09 sounds great so far right? well as EA do theirs a problem, I wasnt at all impressed with the Response times, It feels exactly the same as Euro and for me that just isnt good enough, you still struggle to pull of one touch passing moves like the Arse, you have to wait a split second before Scholes attempts to smash one in from the edge of the box, The game felt so good and i cant believe EA havnt addressed this!

FIFA 09 so far is looking like a Great game but i think with all these improvements if they dont sort out the Responce times then alot of people including myself wont be happy, but if they can sort that out with 10% or whatever to go then it will be a amazing game. :))

[evacuate]

As for manual passing, do u feel that player attributes still come in to play at all or is it strictly the direction you press on the controller + power? One of the problems with fifa already is player att's not mattering as much as they should does this not take away from it even further? I've always used a mix of semi auto and auto and that has been good for me so far

Attributes come in play but you obviously wont notice it much in normal short passing. Shots will never go exactly where you aim. Attributes, balance/position to the ball and curve will all be part of where the ball ends up. I personally can't believe that so few people use manual controls when we finally get this. And the same auto playing people are screaming for 360 degree movement... :DOH:

[Lami]

I think what I like is a slow paced simulation of football, rather than a ping-pong, pinball machine arcade version of football like PES, that to me is boring. I have had plenty of fast, dynamic, end to end matches in Fifa08. I think perhaps some people are just too used to overly fast arcade games and can't adjust to a more simulated experience, that's ok, not everyone is the same :)

Tbh I don't know why you keep referring to PES as an arcady game. Only because PES 2008 was stupidly wrong? PES was always the football simulation game mate. Thing is you keep saying "PES" instead of "PES 2008". You're generalizing by saying all PES games play a ping-pong arcade game of football :SS

[Placebo]

Next video uploaded.

[Placebo]

Tbh I don't know why you keep referring to PES as an arcady game. Only because PES 2008 was stupidly wrong? PES was always the football simulation game mate. Thing is you keep saying "PES" instead of "PES 2008". You're generalizing by saying all PES games play a ping-pong arcade game of football :SS

Current gen does not exist for me, I have no interest in it anymore, therefore any comparisons I make between PES and Fifa are comparing the 360 versions of each.

[cb7]

Overall FIFA 09 sounds great so far right? well as EA do theirs a problem, I wasnt at all impressed with the Response times, It feels exactly the same as Euro and for me that just isnt good enough, you still struggle to pull of one touch passing moves like the Arse, you have to wait a split second before Scholes attempts to smash one in from the edge of the box, The game felt so good and i cant believe EA havnt addressed this!



Not good :| (Thanks for the review) :)

[Dr Force]

YES I HAVE PLAYED THE GAME TODAY AT I34!:DD

Yep folks today I played the game for the first time, I played the same build as Adam did and my opinion is pretty different to his. So without further to do let me get on with it :))

My first impression was wasnt that good as I started watching People play it and i didnt see much improvement and as Suff said and as I have seen from a lot of you it really is a totally different thing from watching and playing.

When i first got hold of the controller and the game started I felt the pace of the game to be perfect, they really have nailed it with the default speed IMO(Faster than 08/Slower than Euro). The second thing was the game felt VERY different to me compared to what i was watching before, The players and the ball have weight and when you recieve a pass or run with and try and turn etc this has IMO been improvement greatly. The other big improvement was the ball is ALOT more free, something which really stands out and makes the game feel less robotic and more like your watching a real match rather than the ball being glued to a players foot.

The Passing felt Improvement in certain situations but also felt like in some instances it had gone back, When you pass it can zip across the surface and you also "feel" it more when your player recieves it(adding to the weight). I was playing on "Semi" Passing and it didnt feel as accurate as 08 on "Semi", maybe this was just me as i have moved to Manual recently on 08(1 month) but there was a few situations where the pass went to the wrong player which can be very fustrating but this is something which wont be a problem for Manual players unless this means they have reduced the how free Semi and Manual are a tad bit.

The Shooting i feel was one of the big improvements for me, when you smack it it really is smacked IMO now, this is probably due to the weight being improved aswell, they have improved one on ones alot as it simply isnt as easy as it was before to just score but also it is now pretty much vital you shoot with "Finesse shot" when through on goal, Shooting as a whole is much harder even when there was a empty net you would need to steady yourself to tap it in otherwise there was a chance you would miss the target. I think i hit the post around 5 or 6 times when one on one which shows its become more difficult.
The Skill felt the same as 08 yet they have added more some new skill moves, it isnt as easy as Euro and pretty identical to 08 other than the new skill moves.

The Tackling has been improved massively from the games i played, You now in PES5 with "conservative tackle" you would need to poke at the right times now it feels like that which is good but "Slide tackling" stole the show on tacking as they are now just amazing (along with the collision system which it involves) they have them IMO spot on now. The collision system has already been hyped/praised so im not going to bother other than saying it really is that good.

The Ref can be slightly leniant or strict there didnt seem to be a consistent of one but there is no way you can hack someone down like 08 and not get a red.

The Goalkeepers IMO where along with Shooting and Tackling the biggest improvement, they were IMO perfectly balanced, they reacted properly to the situation, remember when Euro gameplay vids were coming out and Ronaldo had a shot from just outside the box and the Keeper caught it like it was a back pass? well from around 10 or 11 games I played that NEVER happenend and i wasnt pissed at the keeper once.

Overall FIFA 09 sounds great so far right? well as EA do theirs a problem, I wasnt at all impressed with the Response times, It feels exactly the same as Euro and for me that just isnt good enough, you still struggle to pull of one touch passing moves like the Arse, you have to wait a split second before Scholes attempts to smash one in from the edge of the box, The game felt so good and i cant believe EA havnt addressed this!

FIFA 09 so far is looking like a Great game but i think with all these improvements if they dont sort out the Responce times then alot of people including myself wont be happy, but if they can sort that out with 10% or whatever to go then it will be a amazing game. :))


Hitting the post loads of times, fucking finesse shots, average response (still).

I can see there are alot of improvements but these things stink of a very similar game to 08 and Euro.

i thought the response was supposed to be super fast.............obviously not.

[Placebo]

If I can do one touch passing moves with Sheffield Wednesday in Fifa08 I am certain that people can do one touch passing moves with Arsenal players in Fifa09........

[cb7]

About the Alves video, Estadio De las Artes is looking as bad as ever (grass included), awful news for guys who support teams without official stadiums like me :|

[Placebo]

Sorry,but you and a lot of Fifa fans says that Pes is arcade game but it is not true.

Super accurate laser pinpoint auto-passing = arcade.
Manual passing = simulation.

[Lami]

Overall FIFA 09 sounds great so far right? well as EA do theirs a problem, I wasnt at all impressed with the Response times, It feels exactly the same as Euro and for me that just isnt good enough, you still struggle to pull of one touch passing moves like the Arse, you have to wait a split second before Scholes attempts to smash one in from the edge of the box, The game felt so good and i cant believe EA havnt addressed this!

FIFA 09 so far is looking like a Great game but i think with all these improvements if they dont sort out the Responce times then alot of people including myself wont be happy, but if they can sort that out with 10% or whatever to go then it will be a amazing game. :))

:(

[YoungGun_UK]

If I can do one touch passing moves with Sheffield Wednesday in Fifa08 I am certain that people can do one touch passing moves with Arsenal players in Fifa09........

You can to some degree but thats when you press "pass" before the ball has even reached the player so that he makes the command, instead if you press it when its about to reach him he takes a touch instead of hitting it first time.

[Lami]

Current gen does not exist for me, I have no interest in it anymore, therefore any comparisons I make between PES and Fifa are comparing the 360 versions of each.

Ah that's why. I still play current gen though because none of nextgen football titles have nailed it yet. Hopefully pes and fifa this year are good enough.

Looks like we're still having response issues though :(( That ruined it for me in FIFA 08.

[Dr Force]

You can to some degree but thats when you press "pass" before the ball has even reached the player so that he makes the command, instead if you press it when its about to reach him he takes a touch instead of hitting it first time.

Agree, that is what is so infuriating, your constantly having to predict what the players going to do before he's anywhere near it,evaluate the pitch and get your command in ,otherwise they take a touch and its all gone.When i press pass I expect pass regardless if its way before he rcvs it or whilst its at his feet.

Same goes for shooting.The guy above stated that you had to wait a second before scholes reacted to the command...........thats poor response...end of.

[Placebo]

You can to some degree but thats when you press "pass" before the ball has even reached the player so that he makes the command, instead if you press it when its about to reach him he takes a touch instead of hitting it first time.

Err yes you choose the pass power and aim before the ball reaches the player, that's how 1 touch passing has to be on any game, do the pass before it reaches the player, not sure why that's a problem, if you do the pass too late he will of course try to control it :)

[cowden_harley]

any more vids placebo??? San siro looked good in that last one. Nets are the same though!

[Placebo]

Porto v Newcastle was the last one I received, there may be more, no idea, I'm off to bed with Mrs. Mirror Maker to watch some TV ;)

[cowden_harley]

nae bother mate. Thanks for getting those on its appreciated.

Remember play safe!!!!!

[sweetkilla]

Response times will be sorted for release ''surely''

I will find out for myself so soon!

placebo are you going to leipzig by any chance also ?

[drekkard]

I'm not bothered at all with response times not being ultra fast, I really don't find them that tragic in Euro, it's the control responsiveness what I really found dreadful in Fifa.

Making reaction times super fast as someone asks would be the end of the simulation road for the game. They could be tweaked to be 10% -15% faster for good players, and remain slow for the low-skill players.

Take Top Spin as an example. The low speed is what makes simulation possible, because it gives time for the player to perform skillful movements and actions. More time required to perform something make your actions as a player more important and decisive. How could you recreate drive precision in tenis if reaction and action times were about miliseconds? Of course, sometimes players are just too slow on doing something, but I prefer them to be slow than to be too quick if I can choose.

To me that's the exact thing happeninh in football games. Pes has gone the Virtua Tennis road, you simply tap a button and the player can do almost anything. Most of the action is decided by the cpu taking factors into account. Your actions as a player are more restricted, hence the arcade feel to it. Top Spin remembers me Fifa a lot. Sometimes it's excruciating the slowliness of players, but when I make a good drive, a nice passing shot or a good lifted ball, I get a lot of satisfaction knowing it's me who made it.

I understand their reluctancy to change it too much and destroy the gameplay that prsumably hardcore players are liking to date.

What worries me about the videos is the ultra accuracy of passing in general, but specifically in unbalanced / blind situations. That's the kind of thing that would kill the game for me, if simply passing upwards the ball reaches your striker and then you can simply run. That's what totally messed up PES some years ago in my opinion. Passing has to be hard, and in difficult situations, almost impossible.

[Bingham67]

Worrying about shooting delay i thought last thing would be complaint about responsiveness seems improved alot to me in videos even over Euro.

But will all get to make our own minds up when demo comes out thanks for links Placebo good job. :))

[AsterNzeyii]

Where can I find this vids ? I thought on Fifasoccerblog ?

[Lami]

Response times will be sorted for release ''surely''

I will find out for myself so soon!

placebo are you going to leipzig by any chance also ?

Why do you keep saying "will be sorted for release" for every other issue spotted in 09? :LOL:

You do realize its an almost finished game and whats left to be sorted are kits, transfers etc. Not animations and gameplay stuff. As much as i'd love to see the responsiveness fixed but I can't see it happening.

[Placebo]

Yes on FSB.

[stahre]

I'm not bothered at all with response times not being ultra fast, I really don't find them that tragic in Euro, it's the control responsiveness what I really found dreadful in Fifa.

Making reaction times super fast as someone asks would be the end of the simulation road for the game. They could be tweaked to be 10% -15% faster for good players, and remain slow for the low-skill players.

Take Top Spin as an example. The low speed is what makes simulation possible, because it gives time for the player to perform skillful movements and actions. More time required to perform something make your actions as a player more important and decisive. How could you recreate drive precision in tenis if reaction and action times were about miliseconds? Of course, sometimes players are just too slow on doing something, but I prefer them to be slow than to be too quick if I can choose.

To me that's the exact thing happeninh in football games. Pes has gone the Virtua Tennis road, you simply tap a button and the player can do almost anything. Most of the action is decided by the cpu taking factors into account. Your actions as a player are more restricted, hence the arcade feel to it. Top Spin remembers me Fifa a lot. Sometimes it's excruciating the slowliness of players, but when I make a good drive, a nice passing shot or a good lifted ball, I get a lot of satisfaction knowing it's me who made it.

I understand their reluctancy to change it too much and destroy the gameplay that prsumably hardcore players are liking to date.

What worries me about the videos is the ultra accuracy of passing in general, but specifically in unbalanced / blind situations. That's the kind of thing that would kill the game for me, if simply passing upwards the ball reaches your striker and then you can simply run. That's what totally messed up PES some years ago in my opinion. Passing has to be hard, and in difficult situations, almost impossible.

Exactly! Couldn't have said it better myself ;) :applaud::TU: With that said... I haven't played fifa09 myself and I sure want it to be more responsive than fifa08. I thought the responsiveness in euro2008 was quite good actually (read realistic) but that game had other issues...

My biggest issue with both fifa08 and euro2008 is that the goals scored are too similar. I want to see a lot of variety in the goals that I score and concede. That, i miss the most from PES, not ultra-fast-responsiveness and gameplay.

[sweetkilla]

Why do you keep saying "will be sorted for release" for every other issue spotted in 09? :LOL:

You do realize its an almost finished game and whats left to be sorted are kits, transfers etc. Not animations and gameplay stuff. As much as i'd love to see the responsiveness fixed but I can't see it happening.

Why not they would not leave the response times as bad as euro 2008 because they know people would have a hissy fit! and this is one of the things they claim to have improved so it should be.

Optimism is what gets me excited about fifa games I know they improve the things ''I'' want improving and all of my complaints have been ''claimed'' to have been fixed and I will voice my own thoughts on the game in 10-12 days time :) so I can see if the response times are like Euro 2008 or if they truly have improved along with the rest of the game

[danhammer]

sweetkilla, although you are a spurs man i share your opinion of fifa 2009 :-)

[Lami]

Why not they would not leave the response times as bad as euro 2008 because they know people would have a hissy fit! and this is one of the things they claim to have improved so it should be.
I would :-D

Optimism is what gets me excited about fifa games I know they improve the things ''I'' want improving and all of my complaints have been ''claimed'' to have been fixed and I will voice my own thoughts on the game in 10-12 days time :) so I can see if the response times are like Euro 2008 or if they truly have improved along with the rest of the game

Great mate. And please if you do realize it don't ignore and tell it like it is ;))

Then I will have to wait til Sept to try it myself.

[sweetkilla]

sweetkilla, although you are a spurs man i share your opinion of fifa 2009 :-)

:LOL: 4-3 :P my fave game of the last 4 years :)

[sweetkilla]

I would :-D



Great mate. And please if you do realize it don't ignore and tell it like it is ;))

Then I will have to wait til Sept to try it myself.

Don't worry mate I will be 99% honest with my opinions of fif 09 and pes 09 :)

the 1% will be me believing things will be corrected from each title :P

[danhammer]

:LOL: 4-3 :P my fave game of the last 4 years :)

yeah i can laugh about it now mate, i was at the game and felt sick when the 4th goal went in...from stalteri of all people

still good to see your all things fifa, i think it will be a truly great game

[sweetkilla]

yeah i can laugh about it now mate, i was at the game and felt sick when the 4th goal went in...from stalteri of all people

still good to see your all things fifa, i think it will be a truly great game

I was there 2 :DD game of many emotions huh

and I wouldn't go that far there are many things that have made me break 5 controllers on a quick count in fifa 08 :LOL:

[cb7]

What the hell is going on with the Porto goalkeeper uniform??

[danhammer]

i hate the way fifa doesn't give keepers the correct kits....this is one of my fifa pet hates

[Yana]

Please i hope you can elbow and two footed tackle..
:LOL: Love your style man, I agree, I want those too.

[sweetkilla]

Q: How would you summarise your first thoughts of playing FIFA 09 at i34?
ChrisyB: "I hope the game isn't finished yet, I think there is still a few bugs to iron out, I'm sure they will by release".

ChrisyB: "The game now moves a tiny bit faster and I'm glad they've stuck by last years version and re-vamped it, rather than start from scratch."

"However, the game still feels a bit sluggish. Players seem to want hold onto the ball and passes sometimes were a bit delayed, but like I said above, its not finished yet so I hope they can make some final adjustments".

Some great feedback there ChrisyB, many thanks and no doubt EAC will be listening closely to this following your continuing success this weekend.

[astirling]

Why not they would not leave the response times as bad as euro 2008 because they know people would have a hissy fit! and this is one of the things they claim to have improved so it should be.



If you notice....in all the previews they talk about greatly improved response times in comparison to FIFA 08. I haven't read anywhere that response times are greatly improved over euro2008.

[Jamezinho]

I thought the response times in Euro were decent, to be honest.

[Trance_Allstar]

I'll echo what Stahre said in page 8.


Passing needs to be made alot more unaccurate when passing in awkward angles (particularly backheels and passes that go towards the back of the passer).

They should go for a PES5-type stat vs. human input balance. You'd still have the benefit of analog aiming, but there woudl still be alot of variation and error range from where you were aiming. It would be nice to not feel like you always hit every mark with the passing. If you are running fast, being pressured and trying to pass awkwardly, the pass should end up completely failed, missing the mark with several meters.






The trapping is still well dodgy.

Example: 0:13 in this video, red player receives the pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_eHGbu-k60


That really needs fixing, only the best of players would have enough technique to be able to flick that ball first-time to their left with their right boot when it comes from behind them on the right side like that. It's too perfect and way too neat. An OK reaction would have been if he had stoped it with the outside of his right boot and then as a second move turned with the ball in some direction. But having all that in one move from someone other than Ronaldinho looks fake. I'd rather have too sloppy trapping than too perfect. He just sucks the ball in there, realistically he might've had the time to stretch a leg out, but the ball probably would've just hit his leg and deflected a bit, not perfectly stuck to his boot as he turns with perfect balance. He doesn't even loose any speed, which in real life he probably would, since he would be trapping the ball so quickly that he hasn't had the time to properly balance himself for the move he makes.

[Trance_Allstar]

Hey guys, I've got an idea for a feature in FIFA that I'd like some feedback on.



It's basically a restructuring of the "Balance" stat.

It would be renamed into "Balance/Composure", and an additional stat called "Balance/Composure Regain" would be added.

Also, the "Balance/Composure" system would get a Gauge or meter, which would constantly monitor the balance/composure level of a player at any given point.


The "Composure/Balance stat" describes the maximum amount of the Balance/Composure Gauge the player can have filled.

The "Composure/Balance regain" stat describes how fast the player regains (or fills back up) his "Composure/Balance Gauge" when having performed an action that caused him to loose his composure and deplete his "Composure/Balance gauge".




Some definitions before we start:


Balance (how well the player can avoid falling down in a collision or interaction with other players, or specifically how well he can absorb collision energy without falling down).

Strength (how much weight the player has behind his body and how well he outmuscles competition, or more correctly how much energy he can transfer to other players in a collision

Composure (Basically another word for Balance, how well balanced and in control of his body a player is when performing actions, and how quickly and effectively he can perform several actions after one another without loosing the ball or making a mistake.



This System would have nothing to do with the "Strength" stat above, so this wouldn't make the player more massive or such when tackling other players.
Basically, the Strength stat describes how much mass the player has, and the composure and Balance describes how well he is able to control all that mass through various actions and interactions with other players.

Also, it is completely separated from the "Strength" stat, and they share no interactions.
The Strength stat is more of a pure physics stat just so that the game knows what the mass relationship is between two players when they collide. The Strength stat just shows how much energy a player can transfer in a collision, while the Composure system shows partly how well a player can absorb the energy an opponent transfers in a collision, while not falling down, and also partly how the player can keep his composure when doing any other action.

So the "Strength/Mass" stat is in effect only in collisions, while the Composure stat is in effect all the time.


Just so we're clear. :)




I think this would be a really good addition to FIFA, since currently it looks like the player either has total control and can do any action perfectly, or he looses balance completely and stumbles or is tripped. This would work a bit like a balance/composure stat gauge that keeps track of how balanced and in control of his own body the player is at any given time.


- A "fullest" "Composure Gauge" would be when standing still on the ground, with knees slightly bent.
- Running would be very good composure/balance.
- Sprinting still good composure/balance.


- performing action while standing still = minimal impact on composure/balance.
- performing action while running = moderate impact on composure/balance
- performing action while sprinting = big impact on composure/balance

The above is when comparing comparable/similar moves in different speeds or moving.


Some situations and examples of the Gauge in effect:


1. The more twisting or turning in a certain action, the less composure he will retain (a Marseille roulette would _usually_ put a big dent in the composure gauge).

When I say usually, this is what I mean:

The Composure/Balance gauge works on top of all stats.

So for a Marseille Roulette, the stat "Technique" would also be in effect.

So if a player with low technique and composure tries the Marseille Roulette, a couple of things can be observed:

1. The Marseille Roulette would be slow and "untechnical" in itself because of the poor Technique stat.
2. Since the player also has poor composure, not only would the Roulette be poor in speed, but it woould not only carry with it a bigger chance of injury while the player does the trick, but it would also carry with it a much bigger effect once the player comes out of the Trick, and he would have a much harder time to directly make a good pass or execute another trick like a Elastico or such.


Essentially, the "Composure stat" adds a way to not only define individual skills through stats, but also it helps define how well a player can for example perform several skills or actions after one another.


Also, it is very important to note that while the "Composure/Regain" stat would describe how quickly the player is able to regain composure after performing a hard trick or such, if the player also has a big "Technique" stat, that stat will diminish the debilitating influence of the "Composure/Balance" Gauge after a Trick or such.
But is that same player also has a mediocre shooting stat, bad composure will


So the "Composure/Balance" Gauge will affect different aspects of a players game differently based on his stats. Good stats will lead to a slightly lesser loss of composure when dealing with moves and actions that require that particular stat. Again important to remember that the Gauge carries from move to move, so a player with a good trap stat will also have an easier time instantly performing a pass after the trap than a player with bad trap stat.

So if 2 players, 1 with 89 trap stat and 56 pass stat, and 1 with 67 trap stat and 56 pass stat, try to trap a pass and then pass it themselves right after, the player with better trap stat will be more successful with his pass. His naturally better trapping ability helps him keep balance through that movement and he has a better Composure going into the pass movement.



2. The farther away the players legs are from his center of gravity, the less composure he would have (for example if the player is stretching to reach a ball, he is really uncomposed and has little strength to brace for impacts and also to control the ball with trapping etc.


3. Actions which performance is influenced by composure stat and gauge

- General movement/dribbling and ability to turn and move with the ball. Basically, if the player is busy trying to keep on his feet, he can't really be expected to dribble well. Bad composure here would lead to for example inaccurate knockaheads of unpredictable lenght, Trampling on the ball on occassion, Even loosing the ball and running past it due to stumbling too much, but generally just more unpredictable, uncontrolled touch on the ball where the player won't be able to keep it as close to him and would be more vulnerable to a defender swooping in and stealing it.

- Passing (unpredictability of accuracy, power) on top of pass stats

- Shooting (unpredictability of accuracy, power) on top of shooting stats

- Longpassing (unpredictability of accuracy, power) on top of longpass/cross stats

- Skills (Bad composure going in to the skill leads to slower less effective skill move, failure rate higher, loose the ball more often, risk of "dribbling himself" and loosing control of the ball, etc).

- Trapping (the more uncomposed, the more sloppy a trap will be, and the ball will risk bouncing off the boot or missing the boot entirely the more uncomposed the player is). "Perfect" trapping only really possible when standing still and well-composed, when moving at speed trapping becomes naturally unpredictable because of less composure when running). Obviously if player has great trapping skills composure will affect less and player would be capable of completing a trap in high speeds well in most cases.

- Collisions (bad composure = more likely to fall and also to injure himself).

- Top speed (bad composure means he isn't in full control of his body balance and legs, so less top speed until the composure gauge goes back up (player works himself back into balance)



- The faster a player moves or runs, the more inaccurate or failed an action is likely to be (working on top of the players baseline stat for that action obviously).

- The sooner after an action the player performs another action, the more likely that action has of being poor (shot, dribble, etc). The composure gauge will take some time to work back to maximum possible value after a move since it will take the player some time to regain full balance and control of himself.

- As the player stamina decreases, so does the maximum value for the gauge. So if a player has just finished a long sprint, he will be sloppier due to less balance/composure.

- Good Composure stat, possibly strength stat or such, makes players more likely to keep composure through complex moves or being pressured etc.

- Needs to be separate from Balance stat, since smaller players like Messi needs to have lots of composure, yet they can't outmuscle bigger players (basically avoid the PES balance stat issue it's had so far, where Maradona can not only hold his balance when pressured, but also use his balance stat to outpower bigger players, the balance stat works as a power stat aswell which it shouldn't).

- This composure stat would also be able to be used for determining the likeliness of a player injuries. Basically, the less composure a player has when he is tackled or tripped, the more risk of injury. So if a player is in the middle of a tricky move and is basically off balance, he has less control of his body







"Exponential" depletion

If a player starts loosing composure when doing, when looking at his stats/abilities, difficult moves, he is going to loose composure at a faster and faster rate if he doesn't stop what he is doing and allow himself to regain balance and composure.
So if a player does a move several times, and at the first repetition he looses 1X from the Composure gauge, doing that move again while the gauge is still depleated would make him loose 2X amount from the gauge.

Essentially, the higher the gauge is filled, the less easily a player will loose composure. But once is is unbalanced, he will quickly loose balance and such if he continues to perform difficult tricks, or if he is constantly pushed by a defender.

Visual aid

The gauge would be shown as an indication on screen somehow, since in real life you would be able to spot someone who is stumbling slightly or is struggling to keep balance. It might be good to know more instinctively when to go in for the attack on someone based on what their composure and state of balance is at the moment, since that is a vulnerability you would exploit in real life.




Effect of the Composure stat and Gauge:



- Players would realistically move from one action to another, and any unbalance will affect the following move.

- Only really good players would be able to do repeated tricks with the trick stick. A player with poor composure and technique would possibly loose the ball almost all the time if trying difficult ballfeints at high speeds. And doing for example first a soledrag followed by a Marseille Roulette attempt would be a surefire way to make any defender collapse in a heap as his Composure Gauge drops to 0.

- There would be alot more nuance in the game, and this Composure gauge would be an overlay that influences a players ability to basically perform any move. It would prevent mechanical repetition of tricks. Even if a player has a superb "Technique stat", the effects of a poor trap moments before the trick is performed will greatly affect his ability to execute the trick.



It would need alot of work, they would need a system that analyses how well composed a player is during certain points of animations, and it's really a Euphoria thing if you wanna do it full on.

BUT, the basic concept can be implemented with only basic methods for measuring composure.

Basically, all animations in the game are analysed and judged, with respect to eachother, so that certain moves carry with them a bigger depletion of the Composure Gauge. Basically, if the Gauge reaches 0, the player falls over due to lack of balance. This alone would mean that a player has to be careful when shooting right after a Skill trick, since he is temporarily slightly unbalanced. As it is in FIFA08 and such, they seem to be treated completely separate. The Player does one thing, and once he is finished with the animation, the game drops that completely and moves on to the shot that follows.

Also this puts even more emphasis on players, and their differences.

Poor players simply will not be able to play like they did in FIFA08, since for example their trapping performance would be completely scalable based on their speed when receiving the pass etc. And even if they are in a good position to trap well, their composure system will prevent them from stringing together a perfect trap with a perfect pass or perfect shot. Just having a poor player sprint would severely cripple his ability to do anything well, his accuracy during ballhits would be questionable etc.

Even if they just go the "easy route", and for example gradually reduce the players animation speed when the gauge drops towards 0 (so that when the gauge is very low the player might be operating on 75% of his usual ability when it comes to sprint speed/trickstick animation speed, etc), and the chance of the player stumbling on his own increases when the gauge nears 0), and also reduce the players shot and pass accuracy/consistency severely once they start becoming unbalanced and uncomposed, it would be a great addition.


Once the composure reaches 0, they could add all sorts of fun animations of the player tripping on his own foot and falling on his face, or just falling over like when a human looses balance, or more commonly stumbling and loosing the ball, that would be awesome, even if the animation technology prevents you from seeing the player becoming more and more unbalanced during until loosing balance.

[Rob92]

Trance_Allstar - If a football game was made with every one of your suggestions implemented then it would be a brilliant game, almost perfect, but the problem is that no company would go into that much detail with their football games :( It's just a case of making it look good, bullshit about hundreds of improvements and make a lot of money :((.

I agree about the superhuman ball control in that Alves goal vid, but a positive I see from it is that the goal comes from something that would have been saved on 08, shows an improvement.

[Trance_Allstar]

Trance_Allstar - If a football game was made with every one of your suggestions implemented then it would be a brilliant game, almost perfect, but the problem is that no company would go into that much detail with their football games :( It's just a case of making it look good, bullshit about hundreds of improvements and make a lot of money :((.

I agree about the superhuman ball control in that Alves goal vid, but a positive I see from it is that the goal comes from something that would have been saved on 08, shows an improvement.


Yeah, glad the goalkeepers are more sane this year. I hate goalkeepers bouncing around like gigantic bunny-rabbits. :)

[YoungGun_UK]

It really is a class game lads, I absolutely loved it, the only gripe i had was the response's being the same as the Euro's. and Offline this will be fine but Online it will be pretty similar to 08. :((

[jflores]

Ball looks floaty when a player is chesting or bringing down the ball. Only in those instances though. Passes do seem a bit too perfect and sometimes it looks like a ping ball game. I was excited about this game until I read about the same response times not being sorted, not to mention the nets..:-(

I hope they sort this things out although I highly doubt it.

Another thing that disappointed me after reading Adam's review is that stats have no influence on players as they have in PES games.

Oh well, when the game comes out I will enjoy it for what it's worth.

Thanks for the vids by the way.

[Trance_Allstar]

Trance_Allstar - If a football game was made with every one of your suggestions implemented then it would be a brilliant game, almost perfect, but the problem is that no company would go into that much detail with their football games :( It's just a case of making it look good, bullshit about hundreds of improvements and make a lot of money :((.

I agree about the superhuman ball control in that Alves goal vid, but a positive I see from it is that the goal comes from something that would have been saved on 08, shows an improvement.


Though, to add, I must say that PES has already had the jist of what I was writing about. They could go overboard if they wanted to, but the basic things aren't really harder to implement, into the current technologies, than the collision system they have now, aswell as tweaking the stats so that they can affect aiming and such alot more. :)

[wan_d7]

the pass motion looks great but i think the ball still going very accurate to player even with a no look pass,like they got a magnet on their feet. ^^ but way much better than 08. the collision and motion of ronaldo falling is..superb..haha..but ref still stupid. where's the card dude?! :r1

[lons_pl]

Exactly agree!!! Where ref?? where red card!!!

[TikTikTikTikTik]

@ Younggun, did you test the different speeds out? I think you said the "normal" speed is set to between 08/euro.

This does really effect the response times. Anyone remember the euro demo and the game. They toned that down quite a bit and it effected the responsetimes aswell. Maybe technically they were the same, but when playing the extra sharpness and responsiveness was lost. The same could happen with putting 09 on euro speed. That would be a better comparison to see the response times, its the same with the slower speed, so its faster with the same speed.

[*** Nomis1 ***]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but does anyone know if you can assign stadiums to teams now. I'm an Everton fan and don't want to play all my games in the same stadium (again) - it takes so much away from the game for me. In 08, i ended up playing as Valencia just to have my own 'home' ground!.

[Placebo]

Nothing has been mentioned about it, I fear that the answer is no, which is a shame because it's a shockingly simple thing to implement which would solve a lot of the complaints for a lot of the people.

[Lami]

Another thing that disappointed me after reading Adam's review is that stats have no influence on players as they have in PES games.



Fifa has always been that way. The only difference was the speed and shoot power i think. That is one of the main reasons I've switched to PES about 10 years ago. Along with the exploits ofcourse but that comes first. The player uniqueness was a 'revolution' to me. I'd thought 10 years later Fifa would address it but no. :((

I mean, Cmon EA, you got the presentation right, animations and collision all nice, ball physics superb, all you gotta do is add player uniqueness, fix the responsiveness, get rid of exploits and man we'd have one great game in our hands.

[Placebo]

I never saw all this player individuality that people talk about in PES, sure the star players were a little bit different to default players, but so are star players in Fifa. I play only with Sheffield Wednesday's real players and even between them there are certainly differences, Steve Watson doesn't play the same as Akpo Sodje......

[*** Nomis1 ***]

Nothing has been mentioned about it, I fear that the answer is no, which is a shame because it's a shockingly simple thing to implement which would solve a lot of the complaints for a lot of the people.

Got a feeling your right Placebo tbh. O well, looks like its another season playing as a team that i dont support!.

[cb7]

Got a feeling your right Placebo tbh. O well, looks like its another season playing as a team that i dont support!.

At least you´re lucky enough to play in different opponent stadiums with Everton, by the looks of it i will have to play with Benfica in the Portuguese league with almost every team assigned to Las Artes :| I can't believe they didn't address this crap...

[jonneymendoza]

It really is a class game lads, I absolutely loved it, the only gripe i had was the response's being the same as the Euro's. and Offline this will be fine but Online it will be pretty similar to 08. :((
eh? i thought the responses on euro are alot better then fifa 08? many people here agree with the response of euro being far superior

[Placebo]

They are, he's saying that once you factor in lag it then reduces the response times to a level similar to that of Fifa08's offline.

[*** Nomis1 ***]

At least you´re lucky enough to play in different opponent stadiums with Everton, by the looks of it i will have to play with Benfica in the Portuguese league with almost every team assigned to Las Artes :| I can't believe they didn't address this crap...

Yeah, total crap that which makes it even more anoying that they couldnt change this simple thing. EA harp on about realism but think its ok for the majority of teams to play home and away matches in the same arena!.

[AsterNzeyii]

I left the MM for 2 years now, because it's always the same. When I really want to make a career I 'll do that in FM. I just play some tournaments with my friends or BAP offline/online. I don't need that MM anymore, unless they improve it with things like you can choose the stadium like Nomis1 mentioned.

[Lami]

I never saw all this player individuality that people talk about in PES

Are you sure? I remember in ML i always had to pick players according to their stats. And they surely all were different from one another. Agility, speed, power, accuracy, skills, technique, stamina, balance, headers, etc all made a difference really.

In fifa i can't really tell the difference. Like many say they all feel the same. I'm pretty sure if fifa had this I'd be playing it. The only difference I could tell between players is speed and power really.

[cb7]

Yeah, total crap that which makes it even more anoying that they couldnt change this simple thing. EA harp on about realism but think its ok for the majority of teams to play home and away matches in the same arena!.

What´s the point in getting more European leagues then? Adding the best teams from minor leagues would be more than enough and they could save some time to apply on other things.

[Placebo]

Are you sure? I remember in ML i always had to pick players according to their stats. And they surely all were different from one another. Agility, speed, power, accuracy, skills, technique, stamina, balance, headers, etc all made a difference really.


And in Fifa they all make a difference as well, perhaps not to the extent that they do in PES but it's still there. And it's something they're working on with each version I believe. We should see in Fifa09 that strength and size especially make a difference and that's a good step forward IMO.

[Placebo]

What´s the point in getting more European leagues then? Adding the best teams from minor leagues would be more than enough and they could save some time to apply on other things.

At the very least, even if we can't choose which stadium we play in, they should let us name it ourselves, then each home game I'd see "Welcome to Hillsborough" sure it'd look nothing like the real thing but it'd be something :)

[cb7]

At the very least, even if we can't choose which stadium we play in, they should let us name it ourselves, then each home game I'd see "Welcome to Hillsborough" sure it'd look nothing like the real thing but it'd be something :)

It´s so easy to sort this, that´s why i don't get it.

[cowden_harley]

we need nets like this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics/football/7552284.stm). check the highlights of the dutch game.

[Lami]

Podcast is out guys! Have a good listen.. I hope.
http://www.fifasoccerblog.com/

[Trance_Allstar]

Podcast is out guys! Have a good listen.. I hope.
http://www.fifasoccerblog.com/


Cheers for the heads-up Lami. :)) :TU:

[Coopz]

Are you sure? I remember in ML i always had to pick players according to their stats. And they surely all were different from one another. Agility, speed, power, accuracy, skills, technique, stamina, balance, headers, etc all made a difference really.

In fifa i can't really tell the difference. Like many say they all feel the same. I'm pretty sure if fifa had this I'd be playing it. The only difference I could tell between players is speed and power really.

You last piece basically said why you pick certain players on PES

Speed
Shot Power
Strength
and Heading/Shooting Accuracy

People use Adriano for his strength and shot power
People used Babingida for his pace
and even Roberto Carlos up front because he had pace and shot power

So basically only a few stats mattered

[Lami]

Only thing is I could find ways to stop them even with a slow defender. In Fifa ronaldo, rooney, ibra or adriano would just fly past me pushing me away and couldn't do much.

[Coopz]

yeah that was shit in Fifa 08

you could fly past people with the knock on thing whoever you was running with

[WILDSTER180774]

great podcast over at FSB. Everybody should take the time to listen. Response times took a bit of a knocking but the "front end" of the game (graphics/animations etc) was quoted as being breathtaking and the best in not just a footie game but any game so far on next gen.

[profit90]

At some point in podcast, suff says "unfortunately, it felt like a fifa game"... i'm very disappointed.. looks like same old from ea

[AsterNzeyii]

Well, I'm just going to buy it, it's still an awesome game. People will always find something to moan about.

[YoungGun_UK]

Only thing is I could find ways to stop them even with a slow defender. In Fifa ronaldo, rooney, ibra or adriano would just fly past me pushing me away and couldn't do much.

yeah that was shit in Fifa 08

you could fly past people with the knock on thing whoever you was running with

Funny that, In 09 the game is clearly balanced to help defenders, after 3-4 matches i could easily tell how to stop Ronaldo or Torres Buldozerring through, Simply there can't now with the collision system and the tackling has been improved vastly so much better than Euro.

[YoungGun_UK]

:DD Im back off to I34 now lads to have another playtest.

[Trance_Allstar]

You last piece basically said why you pick certain players on PES

Speed
Shot Power
Strength
and Heading/Shooting Accuracy

People use Adriano for his strength and shot power
People used Babingida for his pace
and even Roberto Carlos up front because he had pace and shot power

So basically only a few stats mattered


Not true.

High Dribble speed stat would make the player move faster with the ball (I believe it was used to scale down in regard to movement without the ball, ie top speed and acceleration. So having 99 dribble speed would essentially mean the player could move as fast with the ball as without it). Very noticable impact.

Agility stat would make players like Ronaldo alot easier to move with. They would actually perform animations faster, so turning or changing direction was a word apart from a bad agility player.

Response stat. They could move in compliance with your stick/pad input alot faster. So defending and moving with a high response player could mean the difference between being dummied by an opponent, and being quick enough to react to get a foot in.


The agility and response stats were extremely valuable. People would usually stare blind on Top speed, Acceleration and dribble speed, but those stats only apply once the player actually starts moving according to your input. The other stats make a world of difference when it comes to making quick directional changes and such.



If you wanted to play a dribbling game, then there were 4 different stats that mattered (agility, response, acceleration and dribble speed). And all had a noticeable impact on a certain aspect of movements and such, and different phases of animations. There weren't just an overall "dribble" stat to differentiate players.

[jeblo05]

At some point in podcast, suff says "unfortunately, it felt like a fifa game"... i'm very disappointed.. looks like same old from ea

I'm happy to be able to choose from two different games, or to buy two different games.

FIFA feels and plays different from PES, but this doesn't mean PES plays better.

Same old...? Are you kidding ? EA has made a new enigine, not KONAMI !

Just try to get into FIFA's gameplay ! It's not easy (but it also took some time learning PES1), but once you've understood the game, you'll see what's missing in PES (and vice versa ;) )

[Trance_Allstar]

:DD Im back off to I34 now lads to have another playtest.

Have fun. you lucky git ;)

[Dr Force]

The digs on response issues are a real blow for me:((

I just could not get into either of the last two editions due to this.To say its similar to Euro is not so good.

Its Ok to keep saying it looks breathtaking (which it does) but I was happy with FIFA 08 graphics, They have had a year to significantly improve the response and close the door on Konami.

Instead we have a new celebration mode, improved graphics and animation but very little on the single most important factor IMO.

like adam states over at WENB "if you could'nt get into 08 or Euro then you wont like this"

A missed opportunity for I feel, still probably decent fun though.

[WILDSTER180774]

thing is everybody likes different things. There will never be a game made that will please everybody. Im getting this....full stop!

[CW]

Like adam states over at WENB "if you could'nt get into 08 or Euro then you wont like this"

A missed opportunity for I feel, still probably decent fun though.

I think that everyone who is reading this topic and has been playing FIFA and Euro will be fine then ;))

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Yeah at the same time he says that if you liked 08/euro you will love this.

Listened to the podcast, nice change when at work, and Adam was really, really positive imo. We have to remember that fifa and pes are going in two totally different directions with their games, so in a way its actually a positive thing about pes players wont be getting into fifa.

I was fine with the responsetimes of euro and 08 (although playing it again at the weekend made it all seem laboured), just wanted them to sharpen everything up really. I also think that people are glossing over the speed setting vs responsetimes that is also a factor. Like I mentioned earlier, the game has the responsetime of euro whilst playing a slower pace, so using the euro gamespeed would mean an increased responsetime when comparing euro08.

Although this can change very quickly in the later versions, euro08 demo was quite a bit faster then the retail, 08demo was quite a bit slower then retail. So if they get enough feeback that they need to dial it up a bit more its possible.

[profit90]

The digs on response issues are a real blow for me:((

I just could not get into either of the last two editions due to this.To say its similar to Euro is not so good.

Its Ok to keep saying it looks breathtaking (which it does) but I was happy with FIFA 08 graphics, They have had a year to significantly improve the response and close the door on Konami.

Instead we have a new celebration mode, improved graphics and animation but very little on the single most important factor IMO.

like adam states over at WENB "if you could'nt get into 08 or Euro then you wont like this"

A missed opportunity for I feel, still probably decent fun though.

Totally agree. I wasnt into 08 or Euro either. After the first 2 weeks, I put them away and havent touched them since.

[danhammer]

spot on CW, if you like fifa 08 then you'll love fifa 09...simple

[jeblo05]

...Its Ok to keep saying it looks breathtaking (which it does) but I was happy with FIFA 08 graphics, They have had a year to significantly improve the response and close the door on Konami...

The problem is, EA put the main focus on gameplay this year. So we can't expect major gameplay improvements next year. They'll focus on gaming modes (online carreer, whatever...)

regarding the response issue:
I don't have a major problem with EA's response time, at least EURO has decent response times in most situations. In the meantime I don't like PES response times anymore: too much unrealistic and quick moves, shoots and passes can be done in PES. I have "too much" control, the "human factor" is missing... -> PES is starting to feel more like a computer game (in the past it was just the other way around) The 8 directions movement is far too visible in KONAMI's engine
In EURO most actions need some time to be performed, just like in real life. Of course there are situations I just want the player to shoot, but he just performes another feint or move (especially on one-timers, volleys). Hope this is sorted in FIFA09

[gomito#10]

i agree with the player individuality ... def was present in pro evo, not as much in fifa. i miss the individuality of the game.

[Coopz]

The better the response the more arcady the game will become its as simple as that

i dont want to be able to have one hand on the pad and just keep pressing pass along the backline ala PES, i want to feel i am in control of my players of some of which cant do 1 touch passing or struggle to shoot first time

Obviously they should head a ball when you press head or shoot when you press shoot without taking a touch, but if you take away the players response then your left with as i say a shitty arcade game

[jflores]

Response times took a knock? that does it for me(walks away in disgrace..)

[gomito#10]

The better the response the more arcady the game will become its as simple as that

i dont want to be able to have one hand on the pad and just keep pressing pass along the backline ala PES, i want to feel i am in control of my players of some of which cant do 1 touch passing or struggle to shoot first time

Obviously they should head a ball when you press head or shoot when you press shoot without taking a touch, but if you take away the players response then your left with as i say a shitty arcade game

i agree, but i think it should come down to certain players not being able to one touch eveyrthing under the sun. Ribery should be able to almost play everthing one touch, but darren fletcher, i think not. Players like this need more time on the ball to get control think and pass. I think this needs to be refelected in the game... Not eveyone have the same response times..

[jonneymendoza]

The better the response the more arcady the game will become its as simple as that

i dont want to be able to have one hand on the pad and just keep pressing pass along the backline ala PES, i want to feel i am in control of my players of some of which cant do 1 touch passing or struggle to shoot first time

Obviously they should head a ball when you press head or shoot when you press shoot without taking a touch, but if you take away the players response then your left with as i say a shitty arcade game
i dont quit understand, whats your definition of resposne times? in ffia 08 when i wanted to pass first time i have to press the passs button a godo few seconds before my player actualy pass the ball. playing one touch footy in fifa08 was a nightmare due to that.

in PES u cant simply have one had on the pad and pass the ball so easily, you have to direct your passing otherwise your pass's will get intercepted realy easy

[jonneymendoza]

i agree, but i think it should come down to certain players not being able to one touch eveyrthing under the sun. Ribery should be able to almost play everthing one touch, but darren fletcher, i think not. Players like this need more time on the ball to get control think and pass. I think this needs to be refelected in the game... Not eveyone have the same response times..
a better way of doing it is that if u do attempted a one touch, dont make it so that fletcher can NEVER one touche at all, make it so that when he does attempt it, 9/10 the pass is a shit one. dont fuck up the response times based on invividuality

[Placebo]

i dont quit understand, whats your definition of resposne times? in ffia 08 when i wanted to pass first time i have to press the passs button a godo few seconds before my player actualy pass the ball. playing one touch footy in fifa08 was a nightmare due to that.

Considering that you can kick the ball the whole length of the pitch in about 2 seconds, I somehow don't think you have to press the pass button a "godo" few seconds before, unless you somehow aren't aware that a few = 5 or 6........

[jonneymendoza]

Considering that you can kick the ball the whole length of the pitch in about 2 seconds, I somehow don't think you have to press the pass button a "godo" few seconds before, unless you somehow aren't aware that a few = 5 or 6........
i over exaturated a bit but in fifa08 when i press the pass button it doesnt pass. i have to press it maybe a half a second to 1 second early and that can be crucial as you may see a gap in a defence at the last moment and want to exploit that my passing the ball into that space.

[Placebo]

What browser do you use Jonney?

i over exaturated a bit but in fifa08 when i press teh pass button it doesnt pass. i have to press it maybe a half a second to 1 second early and that can be crucial as you may see a gap in a defence at the last moment and ant to exploit that my passing the ball into that space.

What you explain is the concept of first time passing, you have to decide where you want to pass the ball and at what power before the ball arrives to you, it's how it's done in a real football match and it's how it's done in a video game football match, if the ball arrived at the player and he didn't control it and just let it bounce off his foot people would complain, so instead if you want to first time pass the ball you decide on who you want to pass to before it arrives, make the pass movement/press and as soon as the ball arrives at your player's foot he'll pass it......

[WILDSTER180774]

i over exaturated a bit but in fifa08 when i press the pass button it doesnt pass. i have to press it maybe a half a second to 1 second early and that can be crucial as you may see a gap in a defence at the last moment and want to exploit that my passing the ball into that space.

did you play euro2008 Jonny? Response times were much improved and fifa09 has built on this again.

[jonneymendoza]

did you play euro2008 Jonny? Response times were much improved and fifa09 has built on this again.
yea thats why i love euro 08 better, response times where a joy

[WILDSTER180774]

cant see fifa09 not being an improvement on that

[sweetkilla]

Just listened to the FSB Podcast I agreed with most of Adams points except one about speed its exactly the same in PES as far as I am concerned small skillfull players are not that useful but quick players like henry and ronaldo can just breeze past you... I will just have to hope the collision system gives me a chance to atleast knock ronaldo off balance alot more than before although Adam said Ronaldo will still just breeze past you :(

[jonneymendoza]

i love BAP and cant wait for 10v10. im already a memember of a well known BAP league and looking forward to this one for sure

[WILDSTER180774]

hope there is a balance otherwise online everybody will just be barca and man utd and i hate that. That was one major bug with pro online. Couldnt get a game against anybody other than barca. Wouldnt it be a good idea if you could, when searching for an online game, choose teams you do not want to play against.

[WILDSTER180774]

can you briefly explain 'be a pro' league. I never played fifa08 just euro2008. I know be a pro mode but didnt know you can play online or anything, is that the case?

[Trance_Allstar]

Just listened to the FSB Podcast I agreed with most of Adams points except one about speed its exactly the same in PES as far as I am concerned small skillfull players are not that useful but quick players like henry and ronaldo can just breeze past you... I will just have to hope the collision system gives me a chance to atleast knock ronaldo off balance alot more than before although Adam said Ronaldo will still just breeze past you :(


It's probably down to getting good at the game aswell. Remember that people usually comment (in a favorable way) that whenever a new PES game came out, it took lots of time to learn to play it properly. So the same could reasonably be expected from FIFA09. Learning to use the improves jostle and stab tackle systems etc would probably be an advantage.

[WILDSTER180774]

that was mentioned in the podcast. That time will be needed to get to grips with the game.

[sweetkilla]

It's probably down to getting good at the game aswell. Remember that people usually comment (in a favorable way) that whenever a new PES game came out, it took lots of time to learn to play it properly. So the same could reasonably be expected from FIFA09. Learning to use the improves jostle and stab tackle systems etc would probably be an advantage.

your right:)

[Milanista]

I'm with Coopz on this one, the faster the response times, the more arcadey it will feel as people will do things a lot faster. Euro 2008 felt arcadey because people were doing tricks all over the place and easily beating the man, and simply running in certain directions to get goals. I'd rather the game is much closer to FIFA 08 than Euro 08.

[Rob92]

I think both PES and FIFA exaggerate the abilities of the best players, and make everyone else play the same.

As people have said, the best players just fly past you on FIFA 08, with nothing you can do apart from hack them down and get cards - in real life, that situation for the defenders would only happen if the player was world class and at the very top of his game. In PES6, Adriano would just plough through your defence, knocking defenders over and all sorts then go and hammer it with unstoppable power into the net...

I have not been very impressed by the FIFA videos I have seen, maybe playing the demo will change that.
The demo is only a month away now.

[Milanista]

I agree Rob, but then again I want players to feel different, just not super human, but it seems too hard to implement :(

[cb7]

Maybe this new collision system they praise all the time will change things a bit.

[Milanista]

As long as we can knock over C.Ronaldo and Drogba a few times :D

[sweetkilla]

I plan on using Inter due to alot of their players been physical!

[jonneymendoza]

I plan on using Inter due to alot of their players been physical!
i bet arsenal are gunna be liek feathers. anyone can knock them about! i dont care mate, thats my team and i will be knocking one two's all over the area waiting for your defenders to shove me to the ground for a nice easy penalty :-pp

[Lami]

I'd love having the option to knock someone over using body weight, not just slide tackle. Maybe pressing LT + slide tackle. I don't want players running past me and not do anything about it except hope for something to happen or wait till he goes past me and slide tackle from behind.

[gameklip]

I agree with coopz too.

If they "overthink" the whole responsiveness issue, we could just end up with a flashy arcade style experience where you can turn on a pin and hit 30yard smashes with relative ease (ProEvo2008).

I like that i have to factor the amount of time i have on the ball in the opposition's half. It turns the game from a brainless pinball game into a patient build-up experience. Some of my best goals in fifa08 have comes though slow build-up play with a sprinkle of close control from kaka/messi (yes, my man utd team is that sick :D).

On the issue of individuality (i was talking about earlier in this new topic), i feel that fifa has tried -this gen- to recreate the individual nature of a player ingame, with traits. The problem is, the traits really didn't stand out in fifa07/08. they don't REALLY worked. Imo, each trait should be well serviced with it's own animation routines etc.

For example LONG BALL SPECIALIST should see the player do a flamboyant, Beckham-eqsue animation. DRIBBLE SPECIALIST should have the player do ronaldo's "tippy-toes" close-dribbling when you hold the LT/L2 trigger. etc

This would bring out the individual nature of players in a team. This way for instance, say you miss a tackle with Alex, and Terry follows in with a tackle, you would see the difference between the two challenges. With Terry's Challage being neat (stopping the momentum in the ball) but devastating (sending the attacking player in the air with the new collision animations).

It really isn't too much to ask for, and i hope they include these new trait animations for Fifa10. It would take as much time to make as the collision animations took.

It's important to give the players a true sense of individuality all the way through the squad/team. Not only because we have powerful enough hardware now, but because if you look at real football, players are being bought and sold for MILLIONS based on their individual skill. It's an important factor that i hope EA challenge head-on.

[Nick Cave]

What's all the stuff regarding response times, I thought that was sorted in Euro pretty much and will be tweaked again in 09?

[jeblo05]

I'd like to see an attribute system, that
- is well balanced (of course ;) -> no super heroes, every player needs weak points)
- has impact on the tactics (e.g. good offensive players may have positioning problems in defence)
- bad form should have impact on attributes (->doing tricks, shooting)
- good defending, fouls, missed changes should have impact on the attributes
- attributes need to have (even more) impact on how a player can be controlled
- CPU controlled players/teams must be affected by (bad) stats, too (FIFA AI always seem to play with 100% players, in this point PES is still one step ahead)

[sweetkilla]

I'd love having the option to knock someone over using body weight, not just slide tackle. Maybe pressing LT + slide tackle. I don't want players running past me and not do anything about it except hope for something to happen or wait till he goes past me and slide tackle from behind.

I think they mentioned something about using the right analog stick to shove players...

[gameklip]

yeah Jeblo,

you reminded me about the whole "super players" thing. I don't think it's all that common that someone blazes past me with ronaldo or ronaldinho to be honest. and to be fair, it would be crap if i managed to get the ball to ronaldo and he's not a joy to control. hein real life he has the ability to blow past defenders if he catches them unawares. he should definitely have that skillin a game.

i think fifa's main problem is that even the best defenders take huge effort to stop him.

all they would have to do would be to have a trait (as i sad before. a REAL trait) that was applied to the best defenders (DEFENSIVE LEADER?) that made the defender quick over 10 yards and excllent at neat slide and foot-in challenges when timed well with the run button. that would be enough to counter the super players.

[jonneymendoza]

What's all the stuff regarding response times, I thought that was sorted in Euro pretty much and will be tweaked again in 09?
i think there just gunna tweak the speed of teh game. i tihink resposne times wil be teh same as euro

[DagsJT]

At some point in podcast, suff says "unfortunately, it felt like a fifa game"... i'm very disappointed.. looks like same old from ea

You really do love doom and gloom, don't you? Every post I notice from you in this thread is miserable.

[Nick Cave]

I hope with all the new physical stuff they have sorted the injuries out...

[Dr Force]

I still think its going to be fun, but not as fun as it should and could have been.

rental for a week before i buy i think:))

[jflores]

The strange thing is, in the vids I've seen the responsiveness looks just what I want in the game. However, reviews say otherwise. Regardless, I will adapt as I always do.

One question though, has it been confirmed that the game will have speed option adjustments?

[cb7]

"At some point in podcast, suff says "unfortunately, it felt like a fifa game"... i'm very disappointed.. looks like same old from ea"

Didn't Suff said the exact opposite in the first podcast? Things like "best next-gen football game i've ever played" and so on ?

[hitmanuk]

Can anyone confirm these points?

Can camera angles be adjusted - im sure i read somewhere you can manually adjust the camera angles

Has a release date been confirmed as I have just read in an XBOX mag its only coming out in November :O(

P.S Id like to see more penalties and red cards when playing single player games in Euro 2008 there are hardly any.

[TikTikTikTikTik]

You really do love doom and gloom, don't you? Every post I notice from you in this thread is miserable.

Yeah, and I'm him in the pes thread :lol:

[hazza10]

To make this the best game is to add LONG TAPE hahahaaha just joking but i would like to see it.

[profit90]

a better way of doing it is that if u do attempted a one touch, dont make it so that fletcher can NEVER one touche at all, make it so that when he does attempt it, 9/10 the pass is a shit one. dont fuck up the response times based on invividuality

Precisely!

[gameklip]

Listen to adam's description of the front end of the game.

sounds sumptuous.

players models improved (Pato is apparently amazing). (slim to stocky players etc).

Loads of new animations. (headed the ball out many times under pressure with different animations each time).

unreal inter-activity between players.

can't wait :D

[sweetkilla]

Can anyone confirm these points?

Can camera angles be adjusted - im sure i read somewhere you can manually adjust the camera angles

Has a release date been confirmed as I have just read in an XBOX mag its only coming out in November :O(

P.S Id like to see more penalties and red cards when playing single player games in Euro 2008 there are hardly any.



Yes cameras can be adjusted

Europe October 3rd
Australia October 2nd
USA October 14th I heard

And yes there will be more cards not sure about penalties

[Coopz]

I'd love having the option to knock someone over using body weight, not just slide tackle. Maybe pressing LT + slide tackle. I don't want players running past me and not do anything about it except hope for something to happen or wait till he goes past me and slide tackle from behind.

i would like to see a body check tackle

so if someone's running at you straight on and knocks the ball past, you can just stand there and block them off or stick a toe out and trip them up

[SPMC]

Yes cameras can be adjusted

sweet!

[AsterNzeyii]

Very sweet! ^^

Oh and I also hope there's long tape, it's a bit more realistic =D

[Lami]

i would like to see a body check tackle

so if someone's running at you straight on and knocks the ball past, you can just stand there and block them off or stick a toe out and trip them up

;))

[TikTikTikTikTik]

so if someone's running at you straight on and knocks the ball past, you can just stand there and block them off or stick a toe out and trip them up

Surely with decent positioning and a tap of the sprint that will happen with the collision system? Ive seen quite a few players take a tumble when knocked by a stronger player in 50/50's. I would imagine that that will work with a bit of skill/timing on our part against the more regular players. Defending against the likes of ronaldo/torres/kaka/ect would require more skill and good timing of the tackle button.

Im hoping it will work that way,

Also were is the info that we can adjust the camera angles? Missed that.

[Coopz]

Heres hoping

[sweetkilla]

david rutter interview on youtube I think but definetly in one of the previews

[Dusse]

Where did Suff say that "unfortunately, it felt like a fifa game"? In the first podcast he said that if you put the gameplay in another graphics engine he wouldn't know that it was FIFA.

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Yeah I remember that comment aswell, although it was in reference to one point Adam made (single player comp AI?).

[Jamezinho]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but does anyone know if you can assign stadiums to teams now?

If someone can find out if we can do this it would be much appreciated. Surely a simple option in the editor like PES has would not be too hard.:brick:

I'm sick to death of the Estadio de Las Artes.:MAD:

[Placebo]

New video up at FSB :)

[Ferraritim]

hope there is a balance otherwise online everybody will just be barca and man utd and i hate that. That was one major bug with pro online. Couldnt get a game against anybody other than barca. Wouldnt it be a good idea if you could, when searching for an online game, choose teams you do not want to play against.

Well, in the Ronaldo free kick video Ronaldo himself looks frighteningly fast.

[Bingham67]

Ooh sweet downloading now :))

[sweetkilla]

http://www.fifasoccerblog.com/2008/08/exclusive-fifa09-hd-video-italy-v.html

like placebo said :)

I will just wait for the youtube upload to come up ? as it usually comes up before I can download it :P

[Placebo]

Considering I'm getting only 30kb/s uploading it to youtube you could be waiting a while, better to grab the direct link from those free sites that give me 500kb/s - 1mb/s :)

[Sugarray]

I'm happy to be able to choose from two different games, or to buy two different games.

FIFA feels and plays different from PES, but this doesn't mean PES plays better.

Same old...? Are you kidding ? EA has made a new enigine, not KONAMI !

Just try to get into FIFA's gameplay ! It's not easy (but it also took some time learning PES1), but once you've understood the game, you'll see what's missing in PES (and vice versa ;) )

Same here ;)

[YoungGun_UK]

I listenend to the Podcast and agreed with most of what they said but then not all.

The point were Adam was saying "its not enough to call it a evolution and its only tweaks etc" sounded very fanboyish as thats EXACTLY what your supposed to do once you have a quality engine in place. Also it IS a evolution believe me!

Others saying "I hope players arent unstoppable etc" well as i said in my review, the game is clearly in favour of defenders due to the collision system. i only conceded 1 goal in around 16-17 matches simply because most of them tried the 08 exploit of giving it to Ronaldo/Torres and hoping to run through but that doesnt work as simply these players go down more easily and thats the case 9/10 times they just got body checked the same way Coopz said above.

The other thing which I wanted to comment on today is after again playing it today, The response's arent the exact issue its the gauge which takes time to load up which is the problem i found. I also tried to take a different aproach today instead of in amazement of the game i tried to see if i could find any exploits etc, and from what i believe is this year Man Utd and Barcelona wont be the team to pick but will be more Chelsea, a team with big players can really dominate the game with their prescense if you get what i mean. It wasnt as if they were unstoppable as there not at all but like in 08 its somewhat something people may look at and try to take advantage of its nothing hugely bad but just my prediction ;))

There is clearly now player individuality in there and that was class IMO, you really have to do the things which cater to each individual.

again any questions lads just ask me if you want :))

[AsterNzeyii]

New video up at FSB :)

I don't see a new video on the homepage :SS

[Placebo]

I don't see a new video on the homepage :SS

http://www.fifasoccerblog.com/2008/08/exclusive-fifa09-hd-video-italy-v.html

[Rob92]

I listenend to the Podcast and agreed with most of what they said but then not all.

The point were Adam was saying "its not enough to call it a evolution and its only tweaks etc" sounded very fanboyish as thats EXACTLY what your supposed to do once you have a quality engine in place. Also it IS a evolution believe me!

Others saying "I hope players arent unstoppable etc" well as i said in my review, the game is clearly in favour of defenders due to the collision system. i only conceded 1 goal in around 16-17 matches simply because most of them tried the 08 exploit of giving it to Ronaldo/Torres and hoping to run through but that doesnt work as simply these players go down more easily and thats the case 9/10 times they just got body checked the same way Coopz said above.

The other thing which I wanted to comment on today is after again playing it today, The response's arent the exact issue its the gauge which takes time to load up which is the problem i found. I also tried to take a different aproach today instead of in amazement of the game i tried to see if i could find any exploits etc, and from what i believe is this year Man Utd and Barcelona wont be the team to pick but will be more Chelsea, a team with big players can really dominate the game with their prescense if you get what i mean. It wasnt as if they were unstoppable as there not at all but like in 08 its somewhat something people may look at and try to take advantage of its nothing hugely bad but just my prediction ;))

There is clearly now player individuality in there and that was class IMO, you really have to do the things which cater to each individual.

again any questions lads just ask me if you want :))Shooting and keepers - my two main gripes with 08, what have they done with those? Do the shots have more power on them? Have you managed to hit a shot that rises and rises shots which dip, shots which are too powerful to stop?

Do the keepers react realistically? Do they come and claim crosses and corners? Are they stronger at their near post, weaker at the far post, do they catch some shots instead of punching all of them, do they push it behind more instead of back to a striker etc.?

[Lami]

Downloading from depositfiles.com and the speed was on 35kb/s but dont know why it kept dropping and now its on 3kb/s :(

my max d/l speed would reach 120kb/s

EDIT: Ok it just flew up to my max speed, ignore this message.

[sweetkilla]

rapidshare is 100kps for me thank god!

[Lami]

Rapidshare don't work for me it keeps saying no slots or whatever :(

[Placebo]

Proxi's ftp should be the fastest one :)

[Placebo]

Youtube video is uploaded but still processing, such a shitty performing site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdjUWt4brW8

[Lami]

Proxi's ftp should be the fastest one :)

What's that?

[Placebo]

http://evoweb.thewarppipe.net/Italy%20vs%20France.wmv

[Lami]

Thank you. I'll use the ftp to download the portsmouth v newcastle game then since I haven't watched it yet.

[Sollito]

Thx for the effort Placebo! Nice video. ;))

[santiago]

http://evoweb.thewarppipe.net/Italy%20vs%20France.wmv

It looks really smooth and Buffon's face looks awesome.

PS: It kinda reminds me PES... I don't know why

[Trance_Allstar]

It looks really smooth and Buffon's face looks awesome.

PS: It kinda reminds me PES... I don't know why


I think the main reason I thought of PES when I saw the first videos was that players actually ran into each other and were knocked around when they did. Same in PES when you run into a player something happens, rather than the players like in FIFA08 just running side by side for all eternity. The physical play is the things that caught my eye the most.

[Jamezinho]

I think the main reason I thought of PES when I saw the first videos was that players actually ran into each other and were knocked around when they did. Same in PES when you run into a player something happens, rather than the players like in FIFA08 just running side by side for all eternity. The physical play is the things that caught my eye the most.

Very much so. The added physicality should add a hell of a lot to this game and make defending more of an art. I can't wait to try it!

As much as I appreciate all the videos that have been contributed so far, I think only the demo will reveal all of the subtle enhancements in Fifa 09.

[sweetkilla]

Like young gun said and I expected physicality is obviously a big part of the game so I expect

Chelsea,Inter to be the team alot of people use to counter the Barca and Man Utd's of fifa 08 :P

(I do this already)

[Nick Cave]

Looking at all the vid's it still seems the ball is stuck to players and never really runs free, but it's not looking too shabby, will have to see how they both stand up at Leipzig...

[Jamezinho]

Looking at all the vid's it still seems the ball is stuck to players and never really runs free, but it's not looking too shabby, will have to see how they both stand up at Leipzig...

I'm guessing players in these videos are using fully assisted passing, shooting etc.....

Once we get the demo and can try full manual control I expect Fifa 09 to really come to life.:))

EDIT: Sorry, noticed you're talking about dribbling, but you know what I mean.

[sweetkilla]

I think the ball is always going to look like that when players want to control it if it felt to loose then people would complain I reckon, I think some things will stay mechanical just to please the majority (those who are average gamers and not as hardcore or care as much about fifa as us)

[Nick Cave]

I'm guessing players in these videos are using fully assisted passing, shooting etc.....

Once we get the demo and can try full manual control I expect Fifa 09 to really come to life.:))

EDIT: Sorry, noticed you're talking about dribbling, but you know what I mean.
Yeah I hope so, I just want clearances and loose balls to go into space and not as it is now where they all have to go to a player...

[sweetkilla]

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=kFuU0ENpodg&feature=PlayList&p=A8898E7778B1DD05&index=0

Just to post again
David Rutter confirming snow is in and they will be revealing new game mode(s) at leipzig aswell as an exclusive PS3 mode

[Nick Cave]

I could live without the snow TBH it's hardly necessary and usually poorly implemented. Fairly certain the PS3 exclusive will be an online mode unfortunately as I never play FIFA online...

[danhammer]

wow the latest fifa 09 video of italy v france looks amazing

the player models are so much better and players height, physique really stands out

[sweetkilla]

I could live without the snow TBH it's hardly necessary and usually poorly implemented. Fairly certain the PS3 exclusive will be an online mode unfortunately as I never play FIFA online...

My guess

Online Mode for both consoles is the be a pro from NHL 09 where you create your own player then join a team of friends etc and dominate online and with good performances slowly get to increase your players stats!

Exclusive Mode Something to maybe do with a Tournament Mode (or FIFA Interactive World Cup)

[sweetkilla]

wow the latest fifa 09 video of italy v france looks amazing

the player models are so much better and players height, physique really stands out

I liked the video 2 :) maybe I am the only one that thought fifa 08 only had 10-15 problems that for the most part seem to have been sorted! if the only issues are response times (not been like PES) and one or two goal keeping issues then I will be very happy as I know there will be issues with the keeper no matter what is done people find a way

[danhammer]

played my bro on fifa 08 tonight, loved it! so in my eyes fifa 09 is a win win situation

[YoungGun_UK]

Shooting and keepers - my two main gripes with 08, what have they done with those? Do the shots have more power on them? Have you managed to hit a shot that rises and rises shots which dip, shots which are too powerful to stop?

Do the keepers react realistically? Do they come and claim crosses and corners? Are they stronger at their near post, weaker at the far post, do they catch some shots instead of punching all of them, do they push it behind more instead of back to a striker etc.?

Seems like your in luck then! Apart from the new "Collision System" Shooting, Tackling and Goalkeeping our the biggest improvements. the biggest is probably Goalkeeping. I can from my experience clearly say FIFA 09 keepers are the best in a footie game ever, They have clearly ripped out all of the old coding and started it from total stratch as there is none of the same reactions from the keepers like 08. They for me perform perfectly fine and that was a great relief.

Shooting as Adam said is definitely a lot better, you can really feel it when you smash a shot, you remember pro in the day when you hit a sweet shot and you new it was going to trouble the keeper you can now feel it, Definitely less floaty for sure! it can really fly sometimes if struck. Finesse shot has also been made harder for the better, remember in 08 when you could hold the button for ages before you shot to shape the shot, well if you do this on 09 it will make your shot slighly less accurate unlike in 08 when you could smash them in for fun.

Well there you go mate, i already answered all of that in my first review but no probs.

[LOGANiSE]

Did you guys @ FSB play with AC Milan? Wanna see Kaka-Ronaldinho-Pato in action.

[Rob92]

Seems like your in luck then! Apart from the new "Collision System" Shooting, Tackling and Goalkeeping our the biggest improvements. the biggest is probably Goalkeeping. I can from my experience clearly say FIFA 09 keepers are the best in a footie game ever, They have clearly ripped out all of the old coding and started it from total stratch as there is none of the same reactions from the keepers like 08. They for me perform perfectly fine and that was a great relief.

Shooting as Adam said is definitely a lot better, you can really feel it when you smash a shot, you remember pro in the day when you hit a sweet shot and you new it was going to trouble the keeper you can now feel it, Definitely less floaty for sure! it can really fly sometimes if struck. Finesse shot has also been made harder for the better, remember in 08 when you could hold the button for ages before you shot to shape the shot, well if you do this on 09 it will make your shot slighly less accurate unlike in 08 when you could smash them in for fun.

Well there you go mate, i already answered all of that in my first review but no probs.Ah sorry, I didn't see your review, I click the "view last post" button so it must have been on a previous page :DOH:. I will find it tomorrow and have a read :)).

Thanks for those answers, that is exactly what I wanted to hear! :)) It has certainly made me more excited about this game than I was before! Especially about the keepers - which would have gone from the worst in any recent game (FIFA 08) to the best in any football game.

Completely manual v manual controls online against a fair player, with Championship teams, on a wet pitch with it raining (with the weather effects making a difference) with good gameplay = Awesome, something I have wanted for a long time.

Also, 10v10 online if they implement it well so the host can kick people, they sort the problems with lag/glitches/responses etc. would be the best thing to happen in football gaming in my opinion. I know with randomers it would be crap but with people you know, it would be brilliant, making a whole team of 10 people up and everyone playing their role realistically against another team of 10 who did the same.

[Bingham67]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5-LG31Ny2w

New video dont think been posted on small screen though.

[Sollito]

Hummm I liked the trick on 0:23 of video... very smooth.

Thx Bingham67. ;)

[jflores]

Nets looked much better on that goal by Newcastle. Way better than the Italy vs France one. The ball practically hit a wall on that own goal by Italy. Horrid nets..I hope EA tweaks them..Please EA hear my cry!

[wan_d7]

i can't see the vid =(

[hazza10]

Very sweet! ^^

Oh and I also hope there's long tape, it's a bit more realistic =D

Waaaaaaaheeyyyyy!!! another long tape fan. I also would love to see the likes of ronaldo and torres etc wearing there long tape. Would add individual realism.

Lads i have stumbled across something in the alves goal video that really excites me. Not sure about the rest of you lads but it looks like long tape will be in Fifa 09. Check these picks. Check the alves vid also and look closely. Jesus i hope it is long tape. sure looks like it.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u74/pooplatapoo/Untitled-1-3.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u74/pooplatapoo/Untitled-1-3.jpg

But i find it strange that the new accessorie is in the early build.

[stilts1844]

Young gunz, i have a question about passing, number one did you find it being too accurate, especially in off balance situations?

#2 a lot of people have been talking about player individuality and attributes and EA seem to have put a lot of emphasis on this this year, but has this translated to passing as well? I felt that passing was the least represented part of attributes in fifa and Euro. So for example if you're controlling pirlo or carrick do you feel the difference in their passing ability? and by that i mean a noticeable difference, there should be as much a difference in someone like pirlo's passing with other players as there is with ronaldo's dribbling. I read somewhere that there would be passes that would curl around players if passed by a player with good attributes (not just crosses/corners) did u see any of this?

[sweetkilla]

at the end of the day stilts if someone has it on assisted passes will be easy its there to help the player... if someone was using semi then I want to know if those situations affected the passing ?

[hazza10]

Waaaaaaaheeyyyyy!!! another long tape fan. I also would love to see the likes of ronaldo and torres etc wearing there long tape. Would add individual realism.

Lads i have stumbled across something in the alves goal video that really excites me. Not sure about the rest of you lads but it looks like long tape will be in Fifa 09. Check these picks. Check the alves vid also and look closely. Jesus i hope it is long tape. sure looks like it.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u74/pooplatapoo/Untitled-1-3.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u74/pooplatapoo/Untitled-1-3.jpg

But i find it strange that the new accessorie is in the early build.




FELLAS WHATS GOING ON. HAVE YOU NOT NOTICED. THERE IS LONG TAPE. LONG TAPE !!!!!!!

[jonneymendoza]

who cares about long tape? gameplay comes first mate

[Placebo]

who cares about long tape?

What he said, except for a correctly capitalised first word to start the sentence!

[astirling]

Agreed. Couldn't give a damn. I hope it's not in. Just to annoy you hazza. For the record....I also hope that the nets are identical to last years. ;-)

[TikTikTikTikTik]

@ Younggun;

How did you find the heading, just watched the new-che video and the viduka header looked good. Proper challenge and movement. Did you find this good aswell, 08/euro it was always a bit static (players already in position and jumping up instead of forward towards the ball).

[Radiation]

From the interview video...

They can (presumably) handle 10 vs 10 online but they can't support 1 vs 1 with a couple of spectators?

[Trance_Allstar]

at the end of the day stilts if someone has it on assisted passes will be easy its there to help the player... if someone was using semi then I want to know if those situations affected the passing ?


To be honest it shouldn't make a difference.


"Assisted passing" does not mean that the game will help the player to pass accurately if he is off-balance, it only assists the "intended aim" angle.

Assisted passing will make you automatically aim at a teammate, but if you are off-balance, it would still mean that the resulting pass should be nowhere near where the aim is.

In both Assisted and Manual passing, you use the analog stick to choose the desired pass angle. If the player is off-balance or pressured etc, the ball would still deviate equally from the "assisted pass aim" aswell as the "manual pass aim".


Assisted only helps you to aim at teammates, it does not make off-balance passes executed with more accuracy.

Meaning, if you in a situation aim at the exact same point (or analog stick angle) with both assisted and manual passing, the error margin due to off-balance or such should be the same.

[lazavas]

Waaaaaaaheeyyyyy!!! another long tape fan. I also would love to see the likes of ronaldo and torres etc wearing there long tape. Would add individual realism.

Lads i have stumbled across something in the alves goal video that really excites me. Not sure about the rest of you lads but it looks like long tape will be in Fifa 09. Check these picks. Check the alves vid also and look closely. Jesus i hope it is long tape. sure looks like it.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u74/pooplatapoo/Untitled-1-3.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u74/pooplatapoo/Untitled-1-3.jpg

But i find it strange that the new accessorie is in the early build.

i just shake my head when i read posts like this, some of u will never ever enjoy a video game because of stupid things like this

[WILDSTER180774]

i didnt realise snow was in this year....cool! Also in the Rutter video he says the games supports 1080hd but graphics are not 1080hd. Can somebody clarify what this means please.

[TikTikTikTikTik]

I'll repost this quesiton in here as the 08 thread gets about 4 posts a day;

"For the ps3 owners outside the UK (and maybe inside aswell);

What languages did you have on the disc? In NL the fifa08 360 disc came with 3 languages; dutch, spanish and swedish. Was that the case on the ps3 version? Or did EA use the bluray disc and fill it with extra languages? Reason I ask is because its another deciding factor for which console version of 09 to choose."

[Ferraritim]

PS3 had English if you changed your system language to English ;)

[Placebo]

i didnt realise snow was in this year....cool! Also in the Rutter video he says the games supports 1080hd but graphics are not 1080hd. Can somebody clarify what this means please.

Probably that you can choose 1080p but the game isn't actually running in 1080p.

[WILDSTER180774]

thanx placebo. Maybe menu graphics etc are 1080 but in game isnt, something like that. Should look mighty fine anyhow on my 40" samsung

[Placebo]

Yeah I'd imagine it'll be something like that, fully 1080p ingame graphics whilst very pretty would be hugely demanding.

[WILDSTER180774]

also placebo, as your in the know, has the manager cutscenes as seen in euro2008 been implemented in 09? i qutie like them but i know some dont

[Lami]

Just thought of this:

Why is it that some people think slow response relates to realism? The faster it is the more arcady it tends to be?

Personally, I think response times should be related to when you press the button, things should work. If it didn't or is slow then we have a problem. But at the same time, we don't want a ping-ponger of a game. So I think the solution to that would be:

Instead of having slow response, fiddle around with the player's technique attribute. What I mean is, not all players should have the same quickness and technique trapping a ball and turning. For example, obviously Ronaldo should be quick with his ball skills and technique, like Robinho too. But someone like Campbell, Senderos or Vidic should be much slower when receiving a pass, controlling it, then turning and moving.

If one of them defenders receive a pass, they take more time to trap it, make the wrong move and might knock it bit longer than intended, then maybe a lurking opposition races for it, the defender barely gets to it, opposition slightly quicker than the defender you're controlling, so you press the bass button hoping you get to the ball before he does but end up flat on the pitch or possibly causing a FK.

Now that can happen when pressing the button and the defender responding quickly to your input, but due to his lack of quickness in his attribute, or even lack of ball trapping and technique, he might fail doing so.

Here we can have the best of both worlds, button responsiveness and realistic player attributes. This would lead us to being careful with such players and not just run about carelessly.

I'm not sure I explained this correctly but I hope my point got through without boring anyone :)

[jonneymendoza]

Just thought of this:

Why is it that some people think slow response relates to realism? The faster it is the more arcady it tends to be?

Personally, I think response times should be related to when you press the button, things should work. If it didn't or is slow then we have a problem. But at the same time, we don't want a ping-ponger of a game. So I think the solution to that would be:

Instead of having slow response, fiddle around with the player's technique attribute. What I mean is, not all players should have the same quickness and technique trapping a ball and turning. For example, obviously Ronaldo should be quick with his ball skills and technique, like Robinho too. But someone like Campbell, Senderos or Vidic should be much slower when receiving a pass, controlling it, then turning and moving.

If one of them defenders receive a pass, they take more time to trap it, make the wrong move and might knock it bit longer than intended, then maybe a lurking opposition races for it, the defender barely gets to it, opposition slightly quicker than the defender you're controlling, so you press the bass button hoping you get to the ball before he does but end up flat on the pitch or possibly causing a FK.

Now that can happen when pressing the button and the defender responding quickly to your input, but due to his lack of quickness in his attribute, or even lack of ball trapping and technique, he might fail doing so.

Here we can have the best of both worlds, button responsiveness and realistic player attributes. This would lead us to being careful with such players and not just run about carelessly.

I'm not sure I explained this correctly but I hope my point got through without boring anyone :)
Check my comment about response times and why i feel that reducing the response times on individual players doesn't make it realistic. reducing the LIKELY of a shit player performing a first time pass accuratly is REALISTIC

[Milanista]

I'll repost this quesiton in here as the 08 thread gets about 4 posts a day;

"For the ps3 owners outside the UK (and maybe inside aswell);

What languages did you have on the disc? In NL the fifa08 360 disc came with 3 languages; dutch, spanish and swedish. Was that the case on the ps3 version? Or did EA use the bluray disc and fill it with extra languages? Reason I ask is because its another deciding factor for which console version of 09 to choose."

The Italian version for 360 only had Italian, Spanish and French. So maybe all non UK versions don't include English?

[WILDSTER180774]

Senderos will need 15 touches everytime when he receives the ball.....now thats realism

[Lami]

Senderos will need 15 touches everytime when he receives the ball.....now thats realism

Haha. Yes that is more like it :D

[Ferraritim]

Senderos will need 15 touches everytime when he receives the ball.....now thats realism

:LOL:

[jeblo05]

response time for me means:
I press a button, the player performs an action immediately.

How and what kind of action is done should be dependend to the player's stats, e.g.:
- leftfooted player, ball is located on the right foot -> when WEAK FOOT FREQUENCY is set to HIGH: player shoots with right foot, poor shoot quality. When WEAK FOOT FREQUENCY is low, player moves ball to left foot, then shoots -> one more animation

- I press shoot in an aerial situation, player performs an header/one timer (FIFA08: player traps the ball, does another step, then shoots)

high response time shouldn't mean unrealistic moves/passes...

[Dr Force]

Why cant EA get the appearance of power right on headers?.All the headers I have seen in the vids are so lifeless.The players seem to struggle to jump and get some real neck movement and power behind the ball, it sorts of hits them rather than the player leaping to make good conact.I think this only enhances the floaty appearance in some of the air shots.

Shooting looked like it had a bit more power to me, so thats a very good thing.

[wan_d7]

yeah..agree with u jeblo.. ^^ sometimes in 08 player took so many time just to perform a pass which i conducted few seconds before and because of the slow responsive the pass become a blunder.

[profit90]

^^agree. headers still look horrible in 09.

[WILDSTER180774]

hey guys, give ea a break. I think what they have acheived in the last 12 months is staggering. Like the guys said on the podcast, people dont really appreciate what goes on in making these next gen games. Like what pro evo did with the ps2 ea are going to do with the next gen. That is tweaking every year to rectify things. It worked with evo and im sure it will work with fifa. They have the engine in place. Think we should all just take a step back and think and praise their hard work. They have really tried this year and have addressed a lot of issues us gamers had. They cant fix it all in 12 months.

[Trance_Allstar]

Just thought of this:

Why is it that some people think slow response relates to realism? The faster it is the more arcady it tends to be?

Personally, I think response times should be related to when you press the button, things should work. If it didn't or is slow then we have a problem. But at the same time, we don't want a ping-ponger of a game. So I think the solution to that would be:

Instead of having slow response, fiddle around with the player's technique attribute. What I mean is, not all players should have the same quickness and technique trapping a ball and turning. For example, obviously Ronaldo should be quick with his ball skills and technique, like Robinho too. But someone like Campbell, Senderos or Vidic should be much slower when receiving a pass, controlling it, then turning and moving.

If one of them defenders receive a pass, they take more time to trap it, make the wrong move and might knock it bit longer than intended, then maybe a lurking opposition races for it, the defender barely gets to it, opposition slightly quicker than the defender you're controlling, so you press the bass button hoping you get to the ball before he does but end up flat on the pitch or possibly causing a FK.

Now that can happen when pressing the button and the defender responding quickly to your input, but due to his lack of quickness in his attribute, or even lack of ball trapping and technique, he might fail doing so.

Here we can have the best of both worlds, button responsiveness and realistic player attributes. This would lead us to being careful with such players and not just run about carelessly.

I'm not sure I explained this correctly but I hope my point got through without boring anyone :)



Well, response time is the time it takes from you pressing the pass button, to the boot of the player making contact with the ball, for example.

Too quick response times will necessitate physics "cheating".
By that I mean that the player might, at the time you press the pass button, be supporting all his weight on the leg he will be using to pass, and thus to have a very quick reaction, the game will need to "cheat" in order to allow the player to use his supporting leg to perform the pass.


In this also comes the concept of "anticipation". A human being who is anticipating a move can perform it alot faster than a unprepared human, even though they are in the same position and such. Being prepared allows you to prepare the use of the correct muscles, and the reaction times would be alot faster than if someone suddenly kicked a ball towards you and told you to kick it or head it etc.


Usually, since the concept of "anticipation" is a natural occurence which allows fast reaction times without cheating physics, wise, it would be better to design all animations to have the reaction times of a human which is always prepared to do anything as quickly as possible.

BUT, the realism suffers alot when you have defenders constantly acting like they know exactly what you are going to do.

It's kind of hard to dribble an opponent who can react to any move like they knew exactly what you were going to do, if you know what I mean. It would mean that you can never catch anyone on the wrong foot or similarly, since they would always be "anticipating" your move, and thus would be ready to switch their weight without a moments notice, no matter what you do.


So for realism, catching people on the wrong foot and players having a "handicap" of having their weight on a leg etc, has to be included if you want realism.

But, that does mean that a player might not always be able to pass as soon as you press the button, since he might have all his weight on his leg and needs to support himself properly with it before he can use his other leg for support, and thus can free up his passing leg for something other than supporting his weight.



Obviously, player stats come in here. A player who is faster and such would be able to switch his weight faster and thus react faster to certain situations. Response time is only element, but still an important one.

PES is used as an example of good response times, but PES also constantly cheat alot when it comes to physics. Players switch legs mid-movement in a manner where a normal human would be in a heap on the ground. PES has too unreal response times, FIFA08 was slightly too slow. UEFA08 was very good as far as movement and actions etc, but the overall game was kinda off. FIFA09 looks very promising, and it looks like they will have the maximum response time possible without cheating too much.

And, PES5 is still the game when you want to see a good system for differentiating between good and bad players.
The better players rarely make mistakes when trapping the ball, while poor stat players sometimes mistime their trap and the ball bounces in all kinds of directions and you need to chase after the ball and get it again. Which is what you describe Lami. :)

[TikTikTikTikTik]

The Italian version for 360 only had Italian, Spanish and French. So maybe all non UK versions don't include English?


Thats why I was hoping foreign ps3 owners could anwser the question. Ferraritim seems to be in the uk, any foreigners with fifa08 for the ps3 in here?

[WILDSTER180774]

in all the vids i have seen so far the response times look to be ok. Maybe its not when you are actually playing and in control but it comes across ok on the screen.

[drekkard]

Please people try to separate different things.

One thing is control responsiveness. Of course, when you press a button the engine should inmediately do something about. Tha generally would mean that the player in control should TRY to accompllish what are you ordering.

The other part of the equation is the action times or reaction times, however you want to call it. This should be a mix of things. For instance, if your player has just knocked the ball ahead, he could NOT try to pass it until he reaches the ball again. That happens in Euro and I feel it's great and some people still says it's unacceptable because it means slow responsiveness.

There's another important factor that must be counted. Being the controls really deep, there are buttons that depending on how you press them, the frequency or the combination with other buttons result in very different actions or orders. That implies that the engine CAN'T respond instanteneously because there's a little fraction of time that the system is trying to recongize your orders.

And another factor in. Controls can be downward silly or try to have some depth. In Fifa playing the game in Manual or almost manual, there's a lot of skill required by the player to achieve things. And you must TIME your actions well if you want to. That implies that the player must perform more things with controls to execute things. It's great to have a lot of modifiers to the shot, for example, but also implies more things to recognize byt the engine and different results depending on the rest of factors (balance, stats, ball direction, power, etc...). So, it's obvious that MORE depth in controls ask for a litle slower gameplay and losing that minimal fraction of responsiveness by the engine. Play Top Spin 3 and you'll see it (tennis is a more simple game than football, it's great to show people about timing, control depth, stats, reaction times, etc...).

But after all this, then it comes the real thing: people simply want his player to trap the ball, pass it, shoot, control it in the minimum possible time. Well, look what happened with pes going this way. People talks about player SKILLS most of the times when we are discussing reaction times. Euro had really good reaction times, it was simply that all players were slow in trapping and maneuvering. I don't want all players to be light-fast, to trap any ball in any situation, to do 30 meters low passes accurately to the feet of the receiver. Hell, I don't want the players to perform first time touches well! Just like tricks, even a player like Ronaldo only goes past a defender doing a trick once every what... 6, 7 times? I still remember the CL semifinals, he didn't succeed in a single dribbling in 180 minutes!

So, I would be really more worried about trying to reflect real world skill and accuracy. That or introduce something to make the process of trapping and maneuvering with the ball a real hard task requiring lots of control by the user.

PS: Generally, PES hardcore fans are most critical with the response times, but maybe they should understand how PES has gone past the non-returning point refering to response times.

[Placebo]

also placebo, as your in the know, has the manager cutscenes as seen in euro2008 been implemented in 09? i qutie like them but i know some dont

TBH I'm not sure about manager cutscenes, considering the huge amount of teams it's possibly not feasible, would be nice if at least you can create yourself as manager for manager mode and show important moments in cutscene but EA have put no effort into manager mode this year so it's unlikely.

[Milanista]

Minor, but imo stupid, thing I noticed thats also in PES is the confetti in the air when the players walk on the pitch. In Italy-France (video), it shows confetti falling over the middle of the pitch..... But the passing looks good so far.

[WILDSTER180774]

TBH I'm not sure about manager cutscenes, considering the huge amount of teams it's possibly not feasible, would be nice if at least you can create yourself as manager for manager mode and show important moments in cutscene but EA have put no effort into manager mode this year so it's unlikely.

thats a shame. Understand the amount of teams would make it impossible but maybe they could of implemented it for the top teams. Maybe the top 4 teams in every Country. Never played the manager mode in Fifa08. Was a Evo fan boy then and only crossed over with Euro2008 but your suggestion sounds good.

David Rutter said that face recognition as in Tiger Woods is high on their list of inclusions for further releases which is great to hear.

[WILDSTER180774]

Minor, but imo stupid, thing I noticed thats also in PES is the confetti in the air when the players walk on the pitch. In Italy-France (video), it shows confetti falling over the middle of the pitch..... But the passing looks good so far.

whats wrong with the confetti, i think its a nice touch. Its probably only in certain games. David Rutter said that they have different on screen graphics etc for different stadia/country to give it an international feel. Scarves etc in England and huge flags and banners for S America and so on.

[Milanista]

Its very unrealistic. There are times where it looks like its falling from the sky. imo I don't think its even needed in the game.

For example:

http://www.grabup.com/uploads/517715bd35d95cf16599286c6e00f4fb.png
http://www.grabup.com/uploads/d22521e5f5e5b7c60028cd9638642289.png

[Trance_Allstar]

Please people try to separate different things.

One thing is control responsiveness. Of course, when you press a button the engine should inmediately do something about. Tha generally would mean that the player in control should TRY to accompllish what are you ordering.

That's not always true. If your player is running onto the ball, you would probably start powering up the shot early to let the player take a few steps and really be able to power up for a shot. The way you describe it, that would instead lead to the player reaching forward and toeing the ball forward instead, as soon as he is within range of the ball.
The game should't always try and accomplish your ordered action as fast as possible, since most of the time, the player doing something too fast means he will do it half-assed or weakly.
Which is why we have modifiers like Control shot to show what we want. If I am not holding control shot, that would signal that I want to do a hard shot, and then powering up early should not have the player trying to perform the action as quickly as possible, but instead with maximum force, compromising a quick response for power.


The other part of the equation is the action times or reaction times, however you want to call it. This should be a mix of things. For instance, if your player has just knocked the ball ahead, he could NOT try to pass it until he reaches the ball again. That happens in Euro and I feel it's great and some people still says it's unacceptable because it means slow responsiveness.

I'm not sure what you mean. If the player knocks the ball ahead so that he can't physically reach the ball, why would anyone expect the player to be able to pass? Seems kind of unreasonable to ask for that. ;)

There's another important factor that must be counted. Being the controls really deep, there are buttons that depending on how you press them, the frequency or the combination with other buttons result in very different actions or orders. That implies that the engine CAN'T respond instanteneously because there's a little fraction of time that the system is trying to recongize your orders.

I'd say that is wrong. Just because you order a Control Shot rather than a normal shot, the game isn't going to take alot longer time to know what you pressed just because you press 2 buttons rather than 1. The calculation time for these aspects is completely negligible, milliseconds at most, probably not even that, electrons move quite fast. Just consider the 50-100ms ping delay for sending data across half the world. Sending data from the gamepad to the Xbox will be alot faster. ;)
That would more likely be the case for the analog stick which has aloooooot more data transfered than the digital buttons. And the system is designed to not have basically any delay between button input and the buttons being translated into the game.

And another factor in. Controls can be downward silly or try to have some depth. In Fifa playing the game in Manual or almost manual, there's a lot of skill required by the player to achieve things. And you must TIME your actions well if you want to. That implies that the player must perform more things with controls to execute things. It's great to have a lot of modifiers to the shot, for example, but also implies more things to recognize byt the engine and different results depending on the rest of factors (balance, stats, ball direction, power, etc...). So, it's obvious that MORE depth in controls ask for a litle slower gameplay and losing that minimal fraction of responsiveness by the engine. Play Top Spin 3 and you'll see it (tennis is a more simple game than football, it's great to show people about timing, control depth, stats, reaction times, etc...).

Again, I have to disagree. The game knows pretty much instantly what buttons you pressed, and it will also basically instantly execute the right code for what you pressed.

Example: When you go through the menu and press A to advance to the next screen, you don't experience a delay between the button press and the animation on screen. That is the inherent delay of the input device. And the calculations for control shot vs. normal shot aren't going to be much different in calculation time etc. It's just different code being executed.


But after all this, then it comes the real thing: people simply want his player to trap the ball, pass it, shoot, control it in the minimum possible time. Well, look what happened with pes going this way. People talks about player SKILLS most of the times when we are discussing reaction times. Euro had really good reaction times, it was simply that all players were slow in trapping and maneuvering. I don't want all players to be light-fast, to trap any ball in any situation, to do 30 meters low passes accurately to the feet of the receiver. Hell, I don't want the players to perform first time touches well! Just like tricks, even a player like Ronaldo only goes past a defender doing a trick once every what... 6, 7 times? I still remember the CL semifinals, he didn't succeed in a single dribbling in 180 minutes!


So, I would be really more worried about trying to reflect real world skill and accuracy. That or introduce something to make the process of trapping and maneuvering with the ball a real hard task requiring lots of control by the user.

PS: Generally, PES hardcore fans are most critical with the response times, but maybe they should understand how PES has gone past the non-returning point refering to response times.

Bold text.

[WILDSTER180774]

everybody has different opinions so fair enough. I dont mind it though.

[jeblo05]

...Play Top Spin 3 and you'll see it (tennis is a more simple game than football, it's great to show people about timing, control depth, stats, reaction times, etc...)...

Top Spin3 is very good example ! I'd like to see a similar balanced mix of attributes and gaming skill in a football game.

e.g. passing/shooting:
I'm playing UEFA/FIFA on manual. Sometimes too much skill is needed to play accurate short passes. After learning FIFA/UEFA manual controls, PES' passing/shooting feels too accurate(->arcadey), FIFA's semi/auto is even worse (unfortunately too many online gamers still use one of these...)
-> something between FIFA's manual (which is assisted, too) and PESesque passing would be perfect...

[ThomasGOAL]

Its very unrealistic. There are times where it looks like its falling from the sky. imo I don't think its even needed in the game.

For example:

http://www.grabup.com/uploads/517715bd35d95cf16599286c6e00f4fb.png
http://www.grabup.com/uploads/d22521e5f5e5b7c60028cd9638642289.png

confetti from UFO
E.T like football

[Trance_Allstar]

something between FIFA's manual (which is assisted, too) and PESesque passing would be perfect...

FIFA's manual is completely unassisted afaik. Semi is helped by the game slightly, and auto is PES style.

[sweetkilla]

I am not worried about Ronaldo been amazing as he should be... Custom Formations are there to stop players been heavily

abused/useful

7 days until I am off to leipzig :)