View Full Version : "line" defense
jhatakihk
30 May 05, 21:32
can someone pls explain what "line" defense is?
how much different is it from playing normal defense?
thx a lot
all CBs make a backline for offside trap!!
they move forward together before the last pass executed..
this is a line D..
sorry about my little english..
Jamezinho
30 May 05, 22:32
Thats right. Your entire defence will try to hold a straight back-line during the match. It doesn't give any of your defenders freedom to attack, and tends to wear them out quicker, but you can catch the opposition offside more often, and the defense is more organised.
Although it doesnt work much, I used to have this setting every match, yet I always found one CB who was playing everyone on-side for bloody miles, its like he was the keeper. I couldnt believe how far back he was.
Did you check individual instructions on that CB Kingpug? Maybe he had "High Defence" while everyone else was on Normal or even a back-ward arrow?
jhatakihk
31 May 05, 07:26
so, if all the defenders are trying to maintain a "line" in the line defense, will that override the individual defense option? such as covering, zone..etc
how will the line defense going to work if the defenders are set to play covering defense? i mean each has to move accordingly to compensate other defenders' movement and position, right? (such as in covering def)
PLF I always have my 4 defenders on high defence, or if I do change it, everyone gets changed.
I'm not taking a stab at you Nick but I find people often instead of tweaking many settings to achieve desired result, they often take the easy way out and say the game CHEATS. Trust me even if the game wanted to cheat which is bullshit anyways people just can't take a loss, it wouldn't do it by setting one defender stay 3 miles behind all other ones to get its own player on-side.
You have to play with tactics but Kingpug I don't put my defenders on HIGH because if youv'e positioned them in your own box and ALSO put on high I find they back off TOO much to a degree where an oncoming striker is rushing towards them and they're staying far far too deep allowing him or the midfielders to get many long-range shots on goal. That's why I put them on NORMAL and it works fine and I get a lot of offsides.
I put HIGH defence on midfielders or sidebacks who have forward arrows and aren't too quick at coming back when we lose possession or if there's someone I especially want to help out with defence from midfield or strikers.
Nick Cave
3 June 05, 18:02
PLF
I spend hours tweaking tactics and player settings full arrows, no arrows different defence types, marking, the lot and the computer still will score or win a game when it want's to no matter what you do... Ok you say it's not a cheat or AI but it happens. I love it when the comp outplays me or i mess up and get caught out at the back etc.... Hell I hate games where you just win all the time,I want it to be as close to real Football as possible!! But i hate the way the comp "cheats", Hacking players pulling back, stopping my players from running after balls by giving them glue legs etc... you must have it happen to you, it's not just once in a while... Hey i'm not knocking the game i love it and getting beat is part of football but lose the cheats.... and PLF you stab away mate thats what forums are for .....opinions ;)
So what's the difference between NORMAL and LINE?
plumbers_x
3 June 05, 20:06
i'm with nick and kingpug on this
you can spend hours playing with strategies and tactics, meticulously altering them to suit the specific opposition, yet it's rendered a complete waste of time because when the cpu decides it's time for you to have a bad time, it just over-rides everything with massive bias in favour of the cpu team...ridiculous ball physics, completely improbable mutliple deflections which result in every "loose" ball being scripted to land perfectly at a cpu guy's feet, very obvious player stat alterations, referee joins the cpu team...in other words, cheats
PLF
I spend hours tweaking tactics and player settings full arrows, no arrows different defence types, marking, the lot and the computer still will score or win a game when it want's to no matter what you do... Ok you say it's not a cheat or AI but it happens. I love it when the comp outplays me or i mess up and get caught out at the back etc.... Hell I hate games where you just win all the time,I want it to be as close to real Football as possible!! But i hate the way the comp "cheats", Hacking players pulling back, stopping my players from running after balls by giving them glue legs etc... you must have it happen to you, it's not just once in a while... Hey i'm not knocking the game i love it and getting beat is part of football but lose the cheats.... and PLF you stab away mate thats what forums are for .....opinions ;)
Hey Nick,
This is just it, I've seen it on EVERY forum... but i just don't believe in that.
The thing is I've played with people and I notice when they get dubious calls that goes their way it goes ABSOLUTELY unnoticed. When they have a defender falling over, or a ref giving a stupid PK or you hacking somebody down with badly mistimed tackle and ref doesn't give a PK and even the CPU player complains.. the match goes on totally unnoticed.
Yet when something goes for computer's way especially if people are down by a goal they go CRAZY!! They start saying things like REF always does this to me.. it's biased. IF CPU wants to score it will... i mean i find that ridiculous. IT can't possibly score when it wants to if i don't let him.
But i'm not saying what you said about defender staying behind is false. I'm just saying you gotta look at it in other perspectives. For example defenders and players in general don't always totally take manager's instructions and they have bad days off days. If it happens to me.. I smile and I also smile when I get stopped with a bad mistimed tackle from behind and ref says PLAY ON!! It puts a smile on my face because it's realistic it happens... yet same thing can happen to my brother and he'll lose his temper and throw the controller at the wall even calling the CPU a CHEAT!!
By the way defenders have their own "Defence" rating so a defender with a 95 for Defence is generally better positioned when defending than one with 72. Their attack rating also might determine how far up or behind they may stay.
So even if they're given same instructions.. player's own individual characteristics come to play just like in real life cuz eveyrbody's different.
Anyways I gotta go now but I'm sure you have some valid points as well.. I just hate when people say game cheats and I don't think you're KNOCKING the game man.. I know you just have your own personal opinion which many actually share with you :) so don't worry and knock the game even if you want.. i ain't one of those fanboys who'll say GAME is perfect! I hate those people.. or they might give you a stupid answer like "Well then... go play FIFA if you don't like it". I hate that lol.. next time I heart that I'm gonna slap that person.
So just state your opinion all you want bro .. i got no problem with it but this just isn't a problem for me personally. When I lose.. I lose.. it could've been either to me being OUTPLAYED or luck/undeservedly either way both happens in real life and I'm happy to lose matches in this game that I didn't DESERVE to lose just like I win some matches 1-0 when I've had 1 shot on goal and being on the receiving end for 90 mins.
But to most other people if that happens... to them they're totally okay with it but as soon as they lose one game 1-0 where CPU had only 2 shots on target the wHOLE match.. you'll hear things like:
"I hate it when CPU wants to score, it WILL. They shot and my keeper couldn't save it " lol.
Multiplaying with human more :D If you had some skilled-mates, your skill would improve much. You will beat CPU without probs, even they cheat but we can outplay them :D
filthydani
4 June 05, 08:18
The game doesn't cheat, its just you have to play better every game if you want to keep winning constantly, I mean when I beat the CPU OR HUMAN in the first game, he always scores first in the 2nd game (maybe not always but it gets easier for him than the first game) , now I am not sure if its my players who don’t play as good as the 1st game or its me who is playing the same way...
I really can't tell…
This is what I dont get, why does people assume I am shit when I say the CPU cheats?..
I used to play it with my cousin on 6 stars, we played about 15 seasons over his 3 ML save games, and all on 6 stars, and although we won the season about 14 times, and got put out of the cup in the first round once, we win around 9/10 of our games.
But just because we win, doesnt mean the game doesnt cheat, quite frankly I dont care what anyone says, we have been playing the game since its release, and although we do win most of our games, we get cheated to fuck in some games.
Now I began a ML on the PC on just 3 stars, and I only managed to play 3 games before I gave in, the amount of times I stumbled was bloody atrocious, the way Bayern Munich scored 3 goals was out of this world.
Now the thing is, when playing with my cousin I dont mind when it cheats much, but on my own I just cant play, which is why I rarely play the game.
I decided to try playing on the PS2, and imo it cheated alot LOT less, the game was much faster and I could get away with fouls while on the PC I would get booked for shouldering someone out the way.
But the fact is, this game is by far the best football game on the market, which says alot really, and its also funny that everyone I know says the game cheats, yet you die hard fans take offence when someone says the game cheats, why?..you didnt make the game, so what is the big fuss all about?..we are entitled to our own opinions.
Now I could save everytime I got cheated into a replay, but if I am being honest I would have 20+ replays, and no I dont suck, I can win on 6 stars if I have enough patience to complete the match, but after one match I am left fuming with anger at the bullshit the CPU comes out with in order to score.
"I hate it when CPU wants to score, it WILL. They shot and my keeper couldn't save it " lol."
Why laugh?..this is 150% true, when they decide when to score, they take a shit shot and your keeper fumbles it right into the path of the nearest CPU player available.
And when you try hard as hell to defend, your player touches the ball into pluto, I mean it really is ridiculous, but according to everyone we just suck eh?
Do you read the whole post Kingpug before replying mate?
Because:
1) I DID mention that you're entiteld to your opinions yet you act like I said opposite
2) I did say this game has its faults and I'm not one of those hardcore fans
3) I did also say that I don't care if people criticize the game since I do it and I ain't no fanboy. I even made fun of how some stupid fanboys keep suggesting you go play FIFA as soon as you criticize something about the game which I hate.
So why come here.... say opposites like yet you die hard fans take offence when someone says the game cheats, why. Who are these DIE hard fans that take offense?? Is it me.. if so i'm not die hard cuz I only started knowing what the hell PES/WE games are in PES3 lol not too long ago and I already said I dont care its not like my dad made the game.
And if its to others who agreed with me then why are they fanboys?? Can't they have their own opinions on why people who say it cheats usually forget about calls they get and games they win by 1-0 and the WaY they score.
I remember winning 6 matches in a row with St. Etienne 1-0 in one ML which had me running away with the league. I was outplayed in at least 4 of them and had 1 or 2 shots on target yet I scored while other team had 10 and my GK had a marvelous day.
Yet I REMEMBER this but had this happened to any of those who say it CHEATS, they would have totally forgot about this since it worked to their benefit. Yet when CPU scores somehow it was an unbelievable goal that shouldn't have been, what about goals I scored from one shot on target?? can the CPU say I cheat!! lol
I also won 3 of those 1-0 wins with a PK scored. 2 of which were total bullshit calls but hey I wasn't complaining.
Have I had same things happen to me with me at the receiving end of bad luck, yes I have :) and I smile when I lose one of those close 1-0 matches where I even dominated. I look forward to the next one and realize this is what real football is like. Some you win, some you lose, sometimes you have luck sometimes opposition does.
My post wasnt really directed at you, but I couldnt be bothered saying alot of names etc etc. About the fanboys, I mainly meant the Soccergaming forums where you get flamed for saying the game cheats, used to happen here a while ago.
I dont mind when the CPU scores, like I said its the WAY they score, why does my keeper have to parry the ball right into the CPU players feet?..why not one of the other 100 directions?
And yea sometimes I get the advantage aswell, but for example, every 10 matches the CPU cheat me to death, I get the advantage maybe 2 times.
Anyway, I might try starting a ML on the PS2, because that seems better than the PC version.
But another thing I dont get is the form, I play single matches when my players all have red form, and it is 100% different, meaning when one player has a red form in the ML he still sucks, but when that same player has red form in a single match he plays pretty good.
The whole form thing about the game sucks arse, players should play normal on green form, and anything over is a bonus, and same with anything less. But to me it seems that a player only plays to his stats if he has red form, which is why I have my team on red form, because they dont do the most retarded things 24/7.
the problem isn't the CPU cheating.
The problem is the whole game faults in terms of offside. This year's versions are very bad in terms of offside.
I remember last year, in WE7, WE7Int and in PES3 the offside trap was pretty efficient and the high through balls weren't so efective.
Now it's pretty easy to break through with high through balls that make the CBs look as good as me. It's tottally stupid.
I agree that through balls needed to be a little more efficient, but Konami could have made hight trough balls efective as they are when performed diagonally, or to the wingers but more difficult in plain straighforward central passes, it's pretty damn unrealistic and makes any offside trap or defensive setting fail.
plumbers_x
4 June 05, 23:28
Do you read the whole post Kingpug before replying mate?
Because:
1) I DID mention that you're entiteld to your opinions yet you act like I said opposite
2) I did say this game has its faults and I'm not one of those hardcore fans
3) I did also say that I don't care if people criticize the game since I do it and I ain't no fanboy. I even made fun of how some stupid fanboys keep suggesting you go play FIFA as soon as you criticize something about the game which I hate.
So why come here.... say opposites like . Who are these DIE hard fans that take offense?? Is it me.. if so i'm not die hard cuz I only started knowing what the hell PES/WE games are in PES3 lol not too long ago and I already said I dont care its not like my dad made the game.
And if its to others who agreed with me then why are they fanboys?? Can't they have their own opinions on why people who say it cheats usually forget about calls they get and games they win by 1-0 and the WaY they score.
I remember winning 6 matches in a row with St. Etienne 1-0 in one ML which had me running away with the league. I was outplayed in at least 4 of them and had 1 or 2 shots on target yet I scored while other team had 10 and my GK had a marvelous day.
Yet I REMEMBER this but had this happened to any of those who say it CHEATS, they would have totally forgot about this since it worked to their benefit. Yet when CPU scores somehow it was an unbelievable goal that shouldn't have been, what about goals I scored from one shot on target?? can the CPU say I cheat!! lol
I also won 3 of those 1-0 wins with a PK scored. 2 of which were total bullshit calls but hey I wasn't complaining.
Have I had same things happen to me with me at the receiving end of bad luck, yes I have :) and I smile when I lose one of those close 1-0 matches where I even dominated. I look forward to the next one and realize this is what real football is like. Some you win, some you lose, sometimes you have luck sometimes opposition does.
so, the cpu cannot possibly cheat?
please explain what you think it is that makes 1* so easy and 6* much harder? after all, the players stats are the players stats and the laws of physics are the laws of physics, so......???
I'm definately sure the game cheats and I have some very clear examples.
First of all, how come whenever you want to make the perfect through ball, the striker will refuse to run forward and then start the run too late to get the ball? This happens to me atleast once every game. The game just wont let me run into a 1 on 1 scoring opportunity because my player would just stand there.
Another one is that how come whistle for halftime or fulltime almost always blows when you are in possession? I mean, there have been times when the ref said there are only 2 mins of stoppage time but the CPU will have the ball for nearly 5 mins. I clear the ball into their half but the carry on playing. But I've experienced times when I ran into their half during stoppage time and the ref blew the whistle during a cross into the box. Whats up with that?
And I've noticed that this only happens in the Master League so that Konami can create the illusion of a better AI.
Yea Rune I get the same, or when your away to throw someone the ball from a throw-in and they run away at the last season.
The only reason all this happens is because of the form, as I said I only play on red form, because on random, yellow or even green my players play blindfolded.
And the ML is a complete joke, the cheating the ML does is incredible, out of all the games I have played, none come close to this game in terms of the blatant cheating AI.
Lets hope when they make PES5 they actually watch football to know what its like, because this game has so many flaws and bugs.
Lol.. I'm not gonna argue this too much more Kingpug and RunEdge because I see I'm alone and there is too many arguements I can use but whatever I don't feel like it.. I'm tired man but I'm willing to bet your ass the whistle doesn't always go when YOU have the ball. Many times it's whoever has possession at the right time so whether its CPU or you it'll blow.
As for difference between 1* and 6*??? Hehhe that's pretty obvious.. on 1* the CPU players are less responsive/slower overall and can't put a couple passes together and even if you don't move your players you'll find they make a mistake and HAND you the ball. On 6* they make better dribbles, better passes and overall the AI is more intelligent.
Too much stuff to say but whatever guys you're of course entitled to your opinions and if you want to believe the game is SCREWING you then do it :) I respect your opinions I just don't buy it and never have the same problem.
I get into many 1-on-1 situations as well.
And no I don't find players act below their stats when they're NOT on a RED arrow. I feel they play just fine with GREEN (avg) arow and anything above it is a bonus and anything below is a small decrease in stats.
In fact I never regulate condition in ML because when you do the MINIMUM arrow you get for your players is AT LEAST a GREEN arrow which i find unrealistic. There are times in season when some players are not fully fit or coming back from injury or just not in good form and should have BLUE or even GREY arrows.. so I don't regulate condition to keep them like that and keep the game more realistic than playes being on AT LEAST Green before every match.
But then again I also lose and enjoy it and I was thinking chipped through balls are too INEFFECTIVE as almost most of them are too LOFTY and not enough power and my defenders and CPU heads the ball without strikers getting through on goal... but then again I think we're all different and this just shows it ;)
Take care guys.
I will tell you what, you are so lucky I cant record a whole match and upload it just to prove you wrong, because I am so tempted to.
Anyway lets not discuss this type of crap in here.
plumbers_x
5 June 05, 09:08
As for difference between 1* and 6*??? Hehhe that's pretty obvious.. on 1* the CPU players are less responsive/slower overall and can't put a couple passes together and even if you don't move your players you'll find they make a mistake and HAND you the ball. On 6* they make better dribbles, better passes and overall the AI is more intelligent.
Yeah, but if these players have the same stats, how can it be that on 1* a cpu player with passing stat of 70 can't pass 5 yards but on 6* can? The stats are altered.
Once you accept that the game alters stats, you realise that opens up the whole can of worms.....anything can be, and is, altered by the cpu depending upon the situation, the players stats, the probability stats, the physics stats, they can all be altered.
The cpu team invariably puts in a big effort towards the end of a match. How can this be? After all, it's not really people, just little computer generated guys who are basically nothing but little bundles of numbers wearing a football kit. So how can these little bundles of numbers suddenly make a surge in effort? Because the cpu is aware of the match context and can decide to make things happen by altering the numbers being fed into the game engine. If the cpu can, whenever it chooses, decide to alter the stats being fed into the game engine, it can "cheat".
plumbers_x you hit the nail on the head, twice :p
Like I said, why is a red form in the ML different to a red form in single match?..
Plus, why do I get more yellows in the ML than I do in single matches?..all the yellow cards I get in the ML are atrocious, aka shoulder barging or sliding from the front.
Why does Henry run fast as fuck when you play him but is slow as fuck when you go him?..while my Henry has red, the CPU has green, explain.
Why can keepers save all the best shots, yet when you go the same team the keeper is shit?..yet again, all using the same form.
Also, why do I stumble like a bit paper in the wind in the ML but not in single matches?..
If anyone can explain these to me, I would be happy.
Lol Kingpug i'm not lucky you can't do that ;) I'd be glad to see it cuz i'm sure in that same match you're recording you might score a goal where opposition keeper is at fault and doesn't move yet you won't be bothered but if same happens and you concede one it'll stick in your memory.
@Plumbers, The CPU tries harder at the end of the match like you said and especially tries super hard if you're leading by one and they try their hardest to get back into match especially in ML. You guys are absolutely right so what's the problem? I'd expect a real team to do that and so it has been programmed so CPU does that as well. It's more realistic.. now of course if they're trying really hard like they SHOULD be and they score, it's suddenly cheating? No, I think of it as opposition players like in real life are giving their best and they score a goal lol.
Anyways guys maybe we shouldn't discuss this anymore. Because I don't see you accepting my point and I don't see me being convinced either.
Take care
If you aint convinced, maybe read my entire post and see if you agree.
What do you mean a real team does the same, so you watch Chelsea play and then 10 mins to go 1 goal down they all turn into the Peles and Maradonas?..doubt it.
Anyway, read my other post before yours and prove me wrong about what I said.
Nick Cave
5 June 05, 10:24
LOL maybe this should be on it's own thread it seams there are two school’s of thought on this, on one side 'the comp cheats' and on the other 'it's just football' or 'the comp can't cheat'......... As this is nothing to do with line defence or normal I guess we should as PLF said leave it at that!!
Though can I just add in WE9 or PES5 the comp better stop clipping my players and making them stumble when they are through on goal................ cheating b@*$%@d.... ;)
Though can I just add in WE9 or PES5 the comp better stop clipping my players and making them stumble when they are through on goal................ cheating b@*$%@d.... ;)
Yep, this is imo the worst thing about the game, and they said WE8:I has less tumbling, what an amazing joke that is. But yet again this only happens, funnily enough in the ML really..hmmmm.
mattster12
5 June 05, 10:44
I accept your opinions guys but I just don't see it. Everything the computer does to me, I do back to the cpu. If your player won't move use super cancel, believe me this is the best thing you can learn how to use. It takes a bit of practice but once you get the hang of it you'll notice the difference big time. I really don't think the cpu cheats but thats my opinion, i'm no fanboy or anything but I think the game is realistic, when your at home you get the majority of the luck and decisions and vice versa when your playing away. The cpu cannot score whenever it wants or we wouldn't win the league and everything practically every season would we? Thats unrealistic!!
"Everything the computer does to me, I do back to the cpu."
Yea but the thing is, when they throw my players around the pitch, piss all happens, yet when I do the same they get a foul. Now this doesnt happen all the time, but believe me, it happens ALOT.
I know what I say is hard to believe, and quite frankly if I didnt experiance this and someone was saying what I say I wouldnt believe them, but I have played this game long enough to realise the CPU is full of shit.
Nick Cave
5 June 05, 10:52
I accept your opinions guys but I just don't see it. Everything the computer does to me, I do back to the cpu.
I hear what you’re saying..... but can you tell me how to get the comps striker to stumble so I can steal the ball off him without getting a foul or a booking..... consistently? I love this game LOL...
Nick Cave
5 June 05, 10:55
but I have played this game long enough to realise the CPU is full of shit.
I'm guessing your a joypad breaker kinda player Kingpug....... I've been through 6 myself though I put it down to Stella... :)
mattster12
5 June 05, 10:56
I'm not saying I don't believe you, I'm saying "I just don't see it". At the end of the day people see things in different ways, thats why there are so many different opinions in the world LOL. You play the game and think the cpu is cheating, I play the game and think the cpu is realistic. But unless Konami come out and say "YES WE FUCKING CHEAT HA HA HA HA HA" there can never be a right or wrong answer.
What do you mean a real team does the same, so you watch Chelsea play and then 10 mins to go 1 goal down they all turn into the Peles and Maradonas?..doubt it.
I hate that sooooooooo much. I'm playing a shit team right, the match is going for over 70 minutes but its as soon as I score that the team all of a sudden become Peles and Maradonas like Kingpug said. Its so frustrating.
Another annoying one is when you have a throw in and when you throw to a player, he runs straight at you for no reason and the ball bounces off him to give the opposition a throw in. I mean, I was holding up and the player ran down.
Nick Cave
5 June 05, 11:10
I think we should have a cheat or no cheat poll I'd be interested in just how many players look at it as a cheat or just football.....
mattster12
5 June 05, 11:10
I hear what you’re saying..... but can you tell me how to get the comps striker to stumble so I can steal the ball off him without getting a foul or a booking..... consistently? I love this game LOL...
Well this doesn't happen to me all the time like some people suggest. If your holding down :x: constantly then your gonna give away free kicks. I just use :r1: or :r2: to run with them then just press :x: to nick the ball. Sometimes just running with them makes them stumble like they occasionally do to me. But it doesn't happen all the time, every game like some people say.
Nick Cave
5 June 05, 11:22
Sometimes just running with them makes them stumble like they occasionally do to me. But it doesn't happen all the time, every game like some people say.
I'd have to say it does to me, not always and not just when you beat a man as this happens when your about to shoot too... even in the box... yes this happens in real life and players sometimes get away with it but I've had it happen three or four times in a game without anything being given then I've run a player off the ball at the other end without pressing anything and in some cases just moved and taken the ball clean without touching them and get booked!!! Hey maybe it is just me or the way I play..... I keep coming back for more week in week out so it can't be that bad........
mattster12
5 June 05, 11:27
LOL yeh, no matter how much people complain they still love the game. Thta poll would be a good idea cos we've sort of hijacked this poor guys thread LOL
I'm guessing your a joypad breaker kinda player Kingpug....... I've been through 6 myself though I put it down to Stella... :)
Nah not really m8, although I do love to bang them off things, which has resulted in me breaking the analog bit on 4 controllers, 1 which was like 2 days old before it got punished 8)
But to be honest, I use an old PS1 controller, and I jab the top of it into my desk, on the PS2 controllers this broke easily, but this wee gray one is going strong.
Plus it doesnt have analog, my dad was wondering why all the analog bits on the others were buckled :D
I dont mind that the CPU get fouls, but I dont even press X most of the time, I just jog into him and he hits the deck, but when the referee whips out a yellow card for this, that just takes the biscuit.
Plus I dont press X, I slide all over the park, but even when you clearly win the ball, the commentators say "oh what a bad tackle from behind" then the referee whips out a yellow, and the tackle was in-front of the CPU player, so behind my arse.
I just dont understand the game, the form as I mentione dis well and truly retarded, the stats aswell..I have had players in my ML team who have 2 yellow stats and the rest white, and they play better than people who have all yellow/orange/red etc etc.
i dont bother with ML cheats. I win almost matches over CPU 6*. And i dont care they cheated or not. Infact, i more play with human. CPU playstyle is boring. If anyone sick with cheats, try play with human :) ---> i afraid someone would still blame opponents cheat if they lost :P
Kingpug what the hell are you talking about??
Never have I in my life NOT read all the posts in a thread before posting a reply to them. Why would you assume I didn't fully read your posts/? I did in fact twice and I'm not convinced.
You slide all over the park lol, that's a great way of giving CPU more fouls because as you can see in general referees are AGAINST sliding tackles and I'd say about 40% of the time even if you get the ball clearly it's STILL a foul, if your player even remotely touched the opposition and how many times have I seen this in real life?? MANY MANY times. In general tackles are considered dangerous especially the ones coming from sides or behind even if you manage to get the ball, the ref MAY call it.
I watched 3 games yesterday and guess what ;) all 3 of them had 3 beautiful tackles and the ref gave foul on all 3 and the player who had made a tackle went into ref's face and kept pointing to the ball and how he got it.
You have to run with R2 and R1 position yourself and at the BEST time, press X and you'll get the ball. Sliding is supposed to be a RARE move in your defence arsenal not something to be used frequently to get the ball. I use it ONLY when I'm dead sure i'll get the ball ususally when opposition payer has knocked the ball too far ahead of them or to block a shot or cross or intercept a pass and it works like a charm.
@RuneEdge, regarding throw-ins, I had same problem a few months back. I'd press X to do the throw in and I'd see my player does such bad touch that the ball goes out for other team. Then I started taking my hand off R1 and direction when pressing X and controlling with L1 and now even a player with poor technique doesn't knock the ball out for cPU throw-in on his first touch.
As far as CPU ever stumblin, I notice if they're running with ball and you're running close to them or from behind and holding R1, they STUMBLE a bit.. and they'll lose the ball if it's a weak person while they'll hold on if its Ronaldo and this is just like real life and we have the same thing. If I'm running with Adriano, tackles and bodychecks are less likely to throw me off the direction of ball and I hold on to it while I play with Sochaux's pacey little striker, they can knock me off the ball sometimes.
@Nick Cave, I agree that we shouldn't be discussing this here. It's about line defence and we've got so much sidetracked.
Finally me and personally a lot of people who play this game LIKE the fact that if CPU is down by one goal their players will TRY harder. They'll even make offensive substitutions bringing in a 3rd striker for a midfielder and you'll SENSE some kinda of URGENCY in their play and their way of defending/tackling which makes the game so much greater in my opinion. After all if you've won first leg and know that a DRAW will take you to finals of FA cup in real life and you're down 1-0. In real life players try their MAX hardest in 70 minutes and on... they run their ass off and this either puts you
1) Under a lot of pressure but you manage to hold on making the game very enjoyable and a classic
2) they put a lot of pressure and score one. You might get pissed off but you just couldn't cope with it cuz CPU didn't say hey i want to SCORE a goal and i WILL. You could've stopped him like in scenario one but this time you weren't good enough, your players didn't play well enough.
3) As CPU becomes more urgent and realize they're running out of time, they press you a lot more when you have possession of ball and attack more vigorously giving you opportunity to launch deadly counter attacks if you maange to hold a couple pacey players up front. So you utilize it well and score one to kill the game.
I've had all these 3 scenarios happen to me and I'm happy whatever the outcome because it was in MY Hands whatever happened hence no cheating. Yeah the CPU DOES try harder and this is natural and I WANT this to be there otherwise game would not be so challenging. It's natural that a team that has nothing to lose will play their skin off and this is what they do. They get a more sense of URGENCY behind them but hell no I don't think for ONE minute they become Peles and their STATS go up. They're just not as patient anymore and wouldn't be happy to pass the ball around patiently and this is perfectly understandable why would they have a patient approach when they're losing and will be kicked out of cup or get relegated or miss out on championship??
The problem IS with people. They can take Scenario #1 and #3 very well yet when #2 happens... all hell breaks loose and they go on about how the players became GODS and their stats went to 90's when simply the CPU became more aggressive and they couldn't cope with it which by the way they could've taken advantage of.
Either way man.. I got plenty to say and I'm happy to hear your views on this stuff too even if you oppose my opinion but do NOT reply to this topic BEFORE you read this WHOLE post especially.
I'm out
jhatakihk
6 June 05, 05:06
PLF, i gotta agree with you. This game, online or offline, is simply amazing!!! i really hope konami do get the license of EPL for the upcoming series.
No the topic isn't about if the game is good or not right now jhata ;). These guys who say it cheats love the game just like us and should have freedom of speech to sayin why it's bad but I personally don't SEE all the cheating and can take a loss while others .. oh well jus read above post of mine and tell me if you agree with that not if the game is good. we all know the game is great but right now topic is this and my post up there pretty much sums up a lot of facts and my opinions.
take care
plumbers_x you hit the nail on the head, twice :p
Like I said, why is a red form in the ML different to a red form in single match?..
Plus, why do I get more yellows in the ML than I do in single matches?..all the yellow cards I get in the ML are atrocious, aka shoulder barging or sliding from the front.
Why does Henry run fast as fuck when you play him but is slow as fuck when you go him?..while my Henry has red, the CPU has green, explain.
Why can keepers save all the best shots, yet when you go the same team the keeper is shit?..yet again, all using the same form.
Also, why do I stumble like a bit paper in the wind in the ML but not in single matches?..
If anyone can explain these to me, I would be happy.
Thats what I mean PLF, do you have any of this?..
And yea I love the game, but it doesnt take away from the fact the game cheats, and yea some think the same, others dont.
What I would LOVE is for someone like PLF to record a match and let us see, because you must be very lucky if you dont suffer the same crap as us.
hhehee record a whole match i dont know man.. i recorded 10 secs and it came to like 24MB and I still don't know how to compress it. Recording whole match would be crazy.
I think the problem is you guys look at it differenly probably. Your player stumbles and you think OH MY GOD... that never happens in real life basically you're too TENSE when playing the game. It's like you have one mission and that's not to have FUN but to WIN WIN WIN WIN and so when CPU gets ball off you or scores a goal despite being outplayed you're too MAD and think of why it cheats and things like that otherwise we all play the same game and I have clearly stated MY reasons/opinions on why game is good and it doesn't do any of those to me.
Take care
Use virtual dub to compress :p
And yea your right, I have a short temper and playing this game doesnt help, but saying that the game still cheats wether I have a short temper or not.
My cousin plays the game 24/7, and even he says it cheats, I am just shocked about it all, how people say the game doesnt cheat when its so obvious, to me anyway.
I try to have fun, but when you get cheated like this, where is the fun?
Its like playing Counter Strike against wallhackers and aimbots, no fun at all.
I dont mind my players stumbling if:
1 - I get a FK, because when the CPU stumble its a FK
2 - They dont stumble every god damn minute in the ML, I mean seriously, I have played this game for ages and I have never ONCE seen my players stumble so much in one match. Doesnt matter if his balance is 40 or 99, he stumbles constantly.
And its for the most simplest of touches, fair enough if someone tackles him, but just scraping his leg?..doubt it. I know footballers are little pussys, but this game takes the biscuit in terms of player physics.
mattster12
6 June 05, 11:10
At the end of the day your never gonna convince me that it cheats in a million years cos I play the game all the time and don't see what your getting at. I was playing again last nite and I payed more attention to see if I could notice some of the things people are saying.
Still couldn't see where your coming from, I made them stumble as much as they do me, the keepers make crap saves for both teams. If you hit across the goalkeeper 90% of the time there gonna parry it. The cpu knows this and it's your job to stop it happening by closing down the space with the gk and positioning your defenders for the inevitable parry to there oncoming striker.
Also whoever said the whistle never goes for the end of the half when the cpu is in possesion was talking bollocks, this opinion I won't accept cos this is just a blatant lie. Many times last nite the whistle was blown while the cpu had the ball and was trying to pull a goal back.
Last point, how do people know that Henry on a green arrow for the cpu runs faster than your Henry with a red arrow. Did you line them up and have a sprint FFS lol? Henry is fast, thats the way it is, him running faster is just your perception. To be honest a lot of people look for the negative in this game especially when losing. If he's just made a fool of your defenders and totally outpaced them he must be cheating hey? You see it as cheating, I see it as totally realistic.
I could go on forever and argue every case of the cpu cheating, cos i don't think there is any. But just as you won't convince me, I won't convince you so I accept some of your views if thats the way you see things but I don't. I think I'm happier player for it, the glass is half full not half empty. In other words don't be so negative all the time and look on the postive side of things and you'll enjoy it more.
There's no 'opinion' on the cheating, it's just how you interpret the actions you see. I get the impression PLF sees it as a challenge, as like in 'real life' anything can happen (players get tired, responsiveness goes, losing team gets an adrenaline rush as they push for a last gasp equaliser, for example). I am more along this way of thinking now, that's how I treat the cheating, because there are times the game does this. The most basic, un-arguable one I can think of is when you play a pass and your player begins to run for the loose ball. He will then suddenly, just for a second, slow down, despite your finger remaining firmly pressed on R1. When the AI player gets into a position to get the ball first, your player is 'released', and regains his full speed.
Like I said, interpret any which way you like, but if you say it doesn't cheat, you're wrong. :)
mattster12
6 June 05, 13:55
Please don't tell me I'm fucking wrong, I don't think the way things happen is cheating by the cpu. How can your point be un-arguable, ever heard of super cancel. You've got your view I've got mine, but don't say I'm wrong ffs, cos how can I be wrong on how I see things. Why the fuck are you so all knowing anyway?
I wasn't even referring to yourself directly, it was a general point. How can you be wrong? Because some things are fact, like the sky is above you, the ground is below you, grass is green and also that you're a mouthy tart, that's fact as well.
Explain what's happening then in the situation I described. Super-cancel is when you cancel the pre-determined direction your player is running on and move him manually, that's got sod all to do with chasing a loose ball 10 yards ahead of any player, which you do by running as fast as you can in a straight line.
Nick Cave
6 June 05, 14:47
How can you be wrong? Because some things are fact, like the sky is above you, the ground is below you, grass is green and also that you're a mouthy tart, that's fact as well.
Thanks D just spat my coffee all over my keyboard laughing..Hahahah... Must remember that quote ;)
Nick Cave
6 June 05, 14:59
.Yep ............ it's another cheat used by the comp....i hate it it sucks.....
What idiot started this cheat debacle?…….. ;) Maybe it should be a new thread with a poll, seems to be a bone of contention!!!
Stringer Bell
6 June 05, 15:12
Now I began a ML on the PC on just 3 stars, and I only managed to play 3 games before I gave in, the amount of times I stumbled was bloody atrocious, the way Bayern Munich scored 3 goals was out of this world.
Thats notting to do with cheating, Bayern just have really good players, i find them difficult to beat in my ML, I always have to be a goal up to make sure i don't lose to them. Thay are a really difficult team to beat.
-fourtet-
6 June 05, 15:20
Mattster wake up and smell the roses ya mouthy little fanboy.
As Classic said, the cpu does cheat, you can interpret that in any way you like. I interpret it as something that ruins the game for me so I usually only play multiplayer because I find it far more enjoyable. I want to be beaten by good moves or intelligent play rather than the traditional Japanese methodology which is to increase the abilities of your opponent to make the game more difficult. They have to lose that mentality a bit for the AI to really go to that next level as it just doesn't exist in football.
Mattster come down dude you made some good points like me ;) but then totally lost it after a GOOD post by ClassicD who wasn't even referring to you.
@Fourtet, we're not FANboys. I've said this many times in this thread and I personally don't give a fuck about Konami and was never one to just disagree upon criticisms cuz it's about our fav game because I know everyone else here loves it too. I'm only arguing this cheating bit because I think it's BULLShit and people just get super pissed when they lose instead of realizing you lose in real life too and if you get beaten in real life by a 90th minute POWREFUL strike from outside the box, you get sad and move on but if it happens in game, I can assure you people will come here and moan about how CPU cheated because they were about to win championship but some player scored and therefore that's cheating.
I guess ClassicD is kinda right about the way you INTERPRET it but I still don't get this. Do you guys NOT want some sort of urgency from CPU in those dying 10-20 minutes when they're about to be knocked out of cup or get relegated or lose a match?? Do you want them to still sit back patiently and pass ball around? Because I sure as hell don't. I want them to give their BEST no even 110% like their manager is yelling to them. they've got nothing to lose and every player should try their best to make it harder for you because they're losing.
This is all just like REAL life that's why I like it. Yet many people once they get that controller in their hands forget about what happens/what doesn't in real life and their main goal is to WIN not have fun and that's when you get into crappy mood because:
- A late goal by CPU will piss you off
- A mistake by your GK will piss you off even though it's part of football and happens to very best teams not to mention you get the same treatment with the wrongdoings of CPU GK.
- Your player stumbles even though you've made opposing striker stumble in box that very same match just as he was about to strike the ball leading him to lose his balance and get the ball and no fouls called either. You do this by RUNNING to them with R1 or pushing htem with R2. In a way it's like bumping to them and I do it even when CPU has a throw-in. They throw it to their guy and i'm standing right behind him. Press his direction and R1 once and my player almost PUSHES him and gets ball.
The list goes on and on and on but i'm quite tired and over with this argument. I've had 4-5 posts where I think I now I've said all I can.
In conclusion, people who have that mentality where all they want to do is WIN will easily get pissed off even by events that reflect real life because to them conceding a goal is cheating because if CPU was trying harder, it's cheating. Why??? If their player scores a nice shot, it means his stats were boosted up? why?? Do you know his stats.
I think this is all in your brains cuz you can't take a good loss and your main objective is to win and not have fun. I mean I try to win as well every game but I accept things that may happen in games in real life at least. Many of you don't so i can't help you with cheating or not.
Take care
plumbers_x
6 June 05, 17:43
Please don't tell me I'm fucking wrong, I don't think the way things happen is cheating by the cpu. How can your point be un-arguable, ever heard of super cancel. You've got your view I've got mine, but don't say I'm wrong ffs, cos how can I be wrong on how I see things. Why the fuck are you so all knowing anyway?
you are very wrong
My $.02:
Maybe a lot of this is just semantics. I don't believe there is anything in the game that the AI can do that you can't do. It's just that you are human and have human reflexes, emotions, lapses of memory, whatever... The AI adjusts how many mistakes it makes depending on the star level. So at 6*s, it just rarely makes a mistake. This isn't "cheating", it's "game design".
I also find it hard to believe that the computer causes the ref to be "anti-human", or anti any one particular side (this isn't the NBA ;) ). The arguments about the reffing in the game could just as easily show up in a real-life footy forum. What I'm saying is that one's bias regarding one's own team causes one to see things less than objectively.
mattster12
7 June 05, 01:05
This is the last I'm gonna say on this stupid argument.
Classic D seen as you said people who the say the game doesn't cheat are wrong that refers to me so like I said don't tell me I'm wrong. As for the super cancel it works for me and I doubt you've even tried it or you wouldn't have said what you did. It's a load of bollocks saying the cpu uses it to cheat. It does exactly the same thing when playing multiplayer FFS! So who's cheating then? If you lot wanna carry on arguing about something that doesn't happen then go on and waste your time. As for me I'll just carry on enjoying the game and I won't start crying everytime I lose a game. Honestly some people are proper sad, the game doesn't cheat me but I suppose if your shit it cheats all the time!
Golden Go@l
7 June 05, 05:29
Could swear that this thread started out as a question about line defense vs normal defence. lol What happened. :)
plumbers_x
7 June 05, 08:17
This is the last I'm gonna say on this stupid argument.
Classic D seen as you said people who the say the game doesn't cheat are wrong that refers to me so like I said don't tell me I'm wrong. As for the super cancel it works for me and I doubt you've even tried it or you wouldn't have said what you did. It's a load of bollocks saying the cpu uses it to cheat. It does exactly the same thing when playing multiplayer FFS! So who's cheating then? If you lot wanna carry on arguing about something that doesn't happen then go on and waste your time. As for me I'll just carry on enjoying the game and I won't start crying everytime I lose a game. Honestly some people are proper sad, the game doesn't cheat me but I suppose if your shit it cheats all the time!
The fact that you cannot see what so many other people have independently reported over various PES and WE forums suggests more about you than the game.
It's a piece of computer code, not real life, and many of us can see quite clearly the "dirty tricks" that the programmers have used to create the impression of artificial intelligence. You cannot see it, which is good for you.....ignorance is bliss.
This is the last I'm gonna say on this stupid argument.
Classic D seen as you said people who the say the game doesn't cheat are wrong that refers to me so like I said don't tell me I'm wrong. As for the super cancel it works for me and I doubt you've even tried it or you wouldn't have said what you did. It's a load of bollocks saying the cpu uses it to cheat. It does exactly the same thing when playing multiplayer FFS! So who's cheating then? If you lot wanna carry on arguing about something that doesn't happen then go on and waste your time. As for me I'll just carry on enjoying the game and I won't start crying everytime I lose a game. Honestly some people are proper sad, the game doesn't cheat me but I suppose if your shit it cheats all the time!
I have no recollection of the incident I described ever happening in multiplayer. The super-cancel is a completely useless in that situation, I have no idea why you are blabbering on about it at all. The fact you're now saying people who think the game cheats are more than likely just shit at it shows your lack of knowledge on this subject. For someone who's "shit" at the game, I've been playing the series since the first ISS Pro arrived in 1997. The cheating btw, isn't a patch on some of the previous versions where AI players 'ice-skated' into position, turning 180° off a full-speed run with no turning circle, for example.
It's there.
After some time playing against the computer it becomes easy to understand how it plays. After doing that (in every game of the series) I rarely concede a goal and win every game by 2 or 3 goals difference at least. So, no the computer doesn´t scores when it wants to IMHO, cuz I don´t even let it come near my goal area. Peace.
After some time playing against the computer it becomes easy to understand how it plays. After doing that (in every game of the series) I rarely concede a goal and win every game by 2 or 3 goals difference at least. So, no the computer doesn´t scores when it wants to IMHO, cuz I don´t even let it come near my goal area. Peace.yes, i totally agree :D
goide is totally right, but another thing you guys neglect to mention is the use of high mentality players. These are the star players when the game is tied or you are behind. A player with a mentality of 80+ can perform very well when a goal is needed, and I have made spectacular goals with mentality 90+ players in the last 15mins of the game.
Some of you should switch to a more defensive formation to protect your lead, and swap a OMF (or CF) for a DMF and man mark their high mentality players.
I have seperate formations for when i have the lead and when i am falling behind. Sometimes spreading the field and passing around can lead so some big openings :)
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